ILB Writing Club

google doc’s a good idea

was their not someone up for the goldsmiths prize this year that wrote their book on their phone while commuting? I can’t imagine

Thomp, I use scrivener in a really simple way! I create a separate “chapter” for each scene, and each individual writing session becomes is a sub-file under the “chapter.” Sometimes I’ll even write a scene two or thee times and stick it in the same so-called chapter.

This helps me to write in a more associative (as opposed to strictly linear) manner. When I get around to editing, I print a “chapter” at a time and massage/mix-and-match/revise based on the overall concept. During the course of a long project this allows me to write lots of varients of individual parts of the narrative, without settling on a right or authoritative version.

Initially I’ll use the notecard feature to set up the “chapters” and not revisit until I drag ‘em around until late, late in the revising. I never use the compile feature, but I love to create research files that are basically just vision boards or piles of nifty words and images.

― rb (soda), Friday, December 8, 2017 2:58 PM (five days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

thanks for this! it's helpful to hear ways in which a real person uses it -- the tutorial is very 'you can do this or this or even this, if you want' -- as i guess mark points out above -- but doesn't really explain why a person would do this (i) or this (ii) or even this (iii)

kudos to anyone who has ever wrote one book. the work it must take to control theme, character, plot, pace, continuity, dialogue, scenes, novelty etc etc across book length

I settled on just writing into a text file saved on dropbox, with notes in notes.app synced across icloud. it's kinda messy (offers none of the organisation of something like scrivener) but think it will work, at least for first/vomit drafting

'control' haha

dropbox is fine. i use google docs and that's fine too. don't know scrivener so can't comment rly but can't imagine how it'd make me more productive

I was just finding google docs slow, on my old computer

I'm interested in people's process for drafting too. like, say, do you try and get it as good as possible first time round? or do you just try get the story down and work it all out in the edit? will you partially write scenes and leave markers to go back and fill in details, or do you try and write them as full as possible? do you write the story sequentially or jump about the timeline, as ideas for scenes come to you? that kind of stuff

i write it sequentially and try to get it good although of course it isn't ever quite good enough until after several subsequent passes, and even then...

last time around i had a giant wodge of plot, sentences i knew i'd include later, ideas etc at the bottom of the document, underneath what i was writing, and this both expanded and diminished as i went through. at no stage did i go past a scene leaving it blank although i can see a case for that now, especially as i had to completely retool a couple of them later. it made sense to write in order as there were so many balls being juggled and so many intersecting plotlines that a continuity screwup would have probably happened otherwise. also despite overarching structural certainties a lot of it was kind of improvised and skipping ahead would have maybe lost the thread, or felt like cheating. idk though when it comes to writing, all cheating this side of plagiarism is probably ok. psychologically it would have left a void between two written bits, which would have sat ill with me

current book i've planned what's going to happen in every chapter before writing it, which will hopefully enable me to churn it out p quickly (although nothing for 2 months over winter, been mulling). of course i'll probably butcher the damn thing afterwards, because butchering something that's already done is kind of much more fun than filling in blanks or maybe even writing the original draft itself sometimes. a block to carve is a delightful thing. although yeah as i say, i do try and get it right first time around too. it's laborious

how do people refine their idea of what their story is /about/ (theme rather than plot, accepting their symbiotic to an extent)

I'm interested particularly how people push through their first drafts (crafting scenes etc) while maintaining something which is at least semi-coherently /about/ something which can be moulded and refined in later drafts

It's probably a horribly inefficient way of working, but wrt the thing I'm currently trying to piece together, I'm initially writing a lot about it rather than, y'know, actually just writing it. Loads of expository passages, delineations of character relationships, etc. Stuff that's only intended to figure into the finished piece in an oblique way, as if I'm writing a history book about the story I'm trying to write. When I sit down to actually write parts of it, I already have a pretty deep sense of how pieces fit together and what I'm trying to comment on and many of the potential inconsistencies have already been preemptively resolved and meandering quasi-themes quashed.

Keeping in mind that this is all in the service of a final product that, knowing me, will probably never actually manifest. But hey.

scrivener is a god send for longer stuff

I decided to start NaNoWriMo today for the first time. I'm intimidated by some of the more garish displays of motivational cheerleading that surrounds it, but also don't want to not acknowledge that I am doing it. Is anyone else partaking this year? Or just, how is everyone's writing going?

The only book I have succeeded in writing was given impetus by NaNoWriMo. It was not a novel, but a sort of humorous non-fiction sort of whatnot, inspired by Three Men in a Boat. I did not finish it within a month, but did get a fairly finished 75,000 word draft done in about eleven weeks, which is pretty speedy. My only counsel would be, it's OK to use NaNoWriMo as a springboard to getting some writing done, in whatever way feels most valuable to you.

It is getting into the spirit of the thing - just launch yourself and write, don't second guess yourself, and don't polish - that helps most.

75k in eleven weeks is certainly a remarkable feat! And that sounds like a great premise - is it around anywhere that I might have a look at it?

Thanks for the advice too. I do think that biggest challenge will be not constantly second-guessing myself, but I'm hoping that some of that will drift away once I get more into it. If all this accomplishes is my not being so afraid to commit something to page then it'll probably be well worth it.

anywhere that I might have a look at it?

You should be writing today instead of reading my stuff, but I put a somewhat clumsy epub of my book on Dropbox and there's a link to it that should work, posted on this thread.

I'm intimidated by some of the more garish displays of motivational cheerleading that surrounds it, but also don't want to not acknowledge that I am doing it

This is me down to a tee tbf. Have you found a path through this minefield? I'm thinking of signing up but doing it in a coveted way? I really do want to, if only for a sorely needed kickstart.

Anything to report so far?

i'm writing a lot, for money even

no fiction tho

Sorry for disappearing from this thread! I'm always doing that. I'm still going with this! Almost at 30k, which is by far the most sustained thing I've done. I'm thinking I will finish something, though readability is another issue entirely. Some set up a Discord for London-based writers and it's been really helpful with keeping motivation going so far in a low-key and mutually supportive kind of way.

LBI - did you sign up in the end?

Aimless - I will have a look at your book properly at month's end!

I will have a look at your book properly at month's end!

Don't feel committed. Fit it in somewhere, if and when you want to.

TT, that is amazing! 30k is a huge achievement, regardless of readability (well y'know, but y'know!). I think this initiative is meant to get those fingers firing and typing when the brain is racing and inspired. That is a huge deal. You should be proud.

And I am rather curious, truth be told, how the low key supportive thing works w/ people you don't know? It'd be a new one for me, but glad it's working out for you!

I did not sign up in the end, and am actively avoiding chat channels or groups intended on motivating people, because it's not for me right now... If anything I like to block out everyone, every chance I get at writing. I'm at 7k. Life got in the way, and I can't clear my head or focus properly because of... stuff. I have a publisher for the first time in my life, who laid down an advance, and I'm meeting him this Thurs to talk about the ~progress~ of my book and I am fretting about not being able to hand over something substantial. Ugh. Perhaps my gf said it best tonight: "Oh no! You'll be the first writer in history to not deliver what was agreed upon on time!" She's right, just tell him my reasons why it hasn't happened yet, and they *are* legitimate reasons, but... It just feels like ehhh another let down.

The struggle is real :)

I really didn't think it'd be for me either. Try as I might, my self-confidence is still crushingly low, so anything where I'm comparing myself to other people seemed like a nightmare, but I don't know...everyone is just so focussed on their own goal and achievements, that nothing else matters. It's been really regulating and laid-back. We do timed writing sprints together throughout the day of 15 minutes, and there's no prompts unless you want one - everyone just working on their own thing. If someone is feeling doubtful, everyone is quietly very encouraging. It seems odd that there are no huge egos or dramatic incidents, but it's just worked out that way.

I'm sorry you've had a hard time recently. Those are wise words from your gf though! So true. It's amazing that you have a publisher, and 7k is a substantial start for an actual book. I'm pretty sure if I had the anticipation of someone reading my work I would write a lot more carefully. Good luck with your meeting - I'm sure you'll be feeling better afterwards on Thursday!

...finishing an essay for a volume in the philosophy of language. It was supposed to be done eleven months ago. I have accomplished an enormous number of important things as a way of not working on it. A couple of months ago, bothered by guilt, I wrote a letter to the editor saying how sorry I was to be so late and expressing my good intentions to get to work. Writing the letter was, of course, a way of not working on the article. It turned out that I really wasn't much further behind schedule than anyone else.

From this article I read today: http://www.structuredprocrastination.com/

It took me a week to get around to this, but thank you tt! For your honest reply and for sharing that essay/article, I enjoyed reading that. "I have accomplished an enormous number of important things as a way of not working on it." The quote you pulled, and this one especially, rings awfully true (or rather: I should tell myself that more often). Crushing insecurity is, of course, the biggest factor at play here, and it's a multi-headed beast. It can make me put off writing, it can make me hate what I wrote, it can make me put things off, it can even make excuses for myself when not writing when I really should. (taking a step back and reading this makes me go #smdh, but it feels inescapable to feel these things while working on my book? Most other times it just feels like I'm whining, but that's on me)

It seems like you found a very supportive, encouraging network you can fall back on when needed. It sounds like something I'd sign up for to be frank! But then a million negatives kick in - well, not only negatives, also some dumb convictions like feeling alone and inept and struggling is part of the job? There's a masochist element to it, for sure.
How did you get on? Did you manage to write something nearly every day? Was writing a book your goal and did you more or less follow up on that, or was it worth your while if only for the writing exercise?

(the publisher, of course, was very understanding and supportive. there are some practical issues affected by my stalling, like him applying for grants/funds and having to delay that, changing schedules with the designer of the book etc. [I say these things coolly but they make me go 'holy fuck this is realllll' lol] it will be... ok. -ish ;) )

When writing both saves you and hurts you.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/commentisfree/2023/jan/30/my-mentor-john-hughes-taught-me-how-to-write-then-he-plagiarised-my-work?