Rolling 2017 Thread on Race

Which is like talking about Americans or dutch or British as if we're one unified mass of experience and background xp

Also yes nhex, childhood is one.of the constructedest ideas there is

It's not surprising that people have a knee-jerk, egocentric reaction to accusations of racism, viewing it in terms of how they're personally inconvenienced by the accusation rather than in terms of their complicity in something harmful. The effort one is willing to put into shifting their perspective from point a to point b (or the extent to which they in fact double down on the personal butthurt) is a pretty straightforward metric for determining how much of a dickhole racist that person is, I find.

it's usually no more than "you're making me feel bad. I don't like people who made me feel bad"

is there any reason to think conservatives are not disposed to worry about complicity arguments

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/12/iat-behavior-problem.html

singal doing his i-just-have-some-questions schtick

Thought this was a good interview: http://www.newblackmaninexile.net/2017/11/racial-justice-doesnt-trickle-down.html

I will listen to that but the "class only" strawman from the description really bugs me. Who's seriously advancing that?

I think there are some problems w this but the overall gist gets at some aspects of the conversation that has confused old people

https://t.co/CHXmHsmLQG?amp=1

x-post: Lol, sorry, but that's perfect for the 'Posts perfectly in character' thread.

fair

Something I'm struggling with in the discourse advanced/described in the Tablet piece (and that I've seen replicated on social media in slightly more extreme forms on the strongly identitarian wings of the left) is, what takes the place of whiteness-as-identity? If whiteness is inherently supremacist, and therefore an identity and oppressive superstructure to be scrapped in history's dustbin (an argument I am totally fine with in and of itself), I would think that risks once again reverting to white people not "seeing" race when they look at themselves, reverting to the nullity that white supremacy encourages, a sort of "otherness" beyond race. Yet I also see people frequently dismissing the idea of "reforming" or "redefining" white identity. So I guess what I'm wondering is, and what I can't seem to piece together from the existing discourse, is what is the non-oppressive way for white people to conceive of themselves?

history's greatest monsters

If whiteness is inherently supremacist, and therefore an identity and oppressive superstructure to be scrapped in history's dustbin (an argument I am totally fine with in and of itself)

lol you are the phoniest motherfucker on this board

I'd assume that if whiteness as an identity is to be abolished, so is race as an identity altogether? Non-white identities having been thrust on ppl by white supremacy.

I say this a lot in these kinds of threads but it feels cart-before-the-horses.

lol you are the phoniest motherfucker on this board

tell me how you really feel sb

Handy how sleepingbag's screen name abbreviates to suggest ban.

is there any reason to think conservatives are not disposed to worry about complicity arguments

I mean that’s just a long smarty pants way of saying what DJP, Nhex, NV, OL and Neanderthal all expressed or alluded to above, really

But you know what’s really long winded and smarty pants is that Tablet piece. Jesus Christ:

This intricate system of racial casuistry, worthy of Jesuits, is a beguiling compound of insight, partial truths, circular reasoning, and dogmatism operating within a self-enclosed system of reference immunized against critique and optimized for virality.

You can tell that that piece is different from all the optimized casuistry because it's so badly written

It starts out okay and then gets worse as it goes on. “I had an outline and a deadline and it was one or the other”

after i posted that, it occurred to me that the right-wing attitude toward federal tax dollars for abortions is worried about complicity. so they understand the principle!

That’s really not at all the emotion behind that though. It’s about control over other people’s options.

A story my wife told on Facebook yesterday:

Overheard in my doctor’s waiting room:
Scene: Two older folks (a man and a woman), obviously related, are sharing pics from a recent family event that the man missed due to illness.

W: Oh, and here’s my nephew’s girlfriend. Well, fiancée, now, since he proposed that day.
M: She’s black?!
W (really agitated, all of a sudden): She’s not black!
M (giggling a bit): Of course she’s black. Do you not have eyes?
W (still agitated): Well, no one said she was black.
M: What?
W (now growling): If she was black, someone would have said so. And, pipe down, people are going to think you’re prejudiced.
M: Not me. I’m just noting that she’s black. She’s gorgeous. You’re the one who’s upset about it.
W: *silence*
M: Ha! Welcome to the family, gorgeous!
W: *leaves the waiting room*
#guesswhoscomingtodinneryall

UPDATE: They just left the office (I was hella early for this appointment). The guy walked right over to me, patted me on the knee (boundaries much?), and said “You are the most gorgeous thing in this whole place!” I think I love him. She huffed and sped up to leave the office.

My wife was the only black person in the room when this conversation happened and everyone else studiously avoided eye contact with her in its aftermath, like they had something to be embarrassed about or something.

"if she was black, someone would have said so" is I don't even know what

Competing Beyonce/Fu-Schnickens "Ring The Alarm" signals going up in that household

ATTN ATTN THE FIANCEE IS A NEGRESS, I REPEAT THE FIANCEE IS A NEGRESS

This intricate system of racial casuistry, worthy of Jesuits, is a beguiling compound of insight, partial truths, circular reasoning, and dogmatism operating within a self-enclosed system of reference immunized against critique and optimized for virality.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, December 7, 2017 7:18 AM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah this is he main quote where it loses me
For most of it though I thought it was a pretty good summation from a distance of what happened within the left over the past few years and explains why so many ostensibly liberal ppl I went to school with are suddenly so concerned with political correctness gone mad

Competing Beyonce/Fu-Schnickens "Ring The Alarm" signals going up in that household

ATTN ATTN THE FIANCEE IS A NEGRESS, I REPEAT THE FIANCEE IS A NEGRESS

― Embalming is a flirty business (DJP), Thursday, December 7, 2017 11:01 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

*extremely nasal white person voice* Actually, it's a Tenor Saw sample

lol

the SC cop who murdered Walter Scott just got 20 years. bracing for inevitable Trump tweet on this news that brings up Katie Steinle.

i am picturing the man and woman in mrs djp's story as the queen and prince philip

Definitely works, I can imagine Phil's eyes lighting up whenever Meghan walks in the room.

well that's some imagery

How to lose an election: https://www.theroot.com/a-racist-flyer-might-cost-doug-jones-the-election-becau-1821065764?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=The_Root_facebook

Goodness me

I mentioned that on rolling US politics at some point, It's, uh, very bad

when keeping it allied goes wrong

God it’s so damn pandering. Is the Democratic Party capable of engaging evenly with its constituency, or is its entire Southern strategy still based on a presupposition of racial deficits?

this is like the horrific opposite of Matthew McConaughey's "now imagine that girl was white!" climax from A Time to Kill

Beyond being awful on every conceivable level, the racist audience which that flyer is ostensibly trying to reach would never vote for a black candidate in the first place.

the racist audience which that flyer is ostensibly trying to reach

It's targeted at black voters according to that article

what an asshole is how i break it down to some extent

It appears the choice in Alabama is between a well-meaning racist and a virulent capital-R Racist who likes young girls.

negative politics is a bad idea. using voters as props is a bad idea. using this stereotype in particular was a bad idea. this is what they used to justify lynchings.

Democrats are fond of negative politics, i think that's a dangerous thing to combine with identity politics, because they are complicit in the system too and fond of forgetting as much because of all the finger pointing. reflexively they will use a stereotype to make a point. it is far more productive to not lower oneself to such tactics. what good have you done, what good will you try to do as a candidate?

hey the good guy locked away KKK members that bombed a church. wouldn't that make for an interesting flyer? and it's true! and it's about the candidate you are voting for! wouldn't that be a good thing to publicize instead to show that you are on the side of social justice? with negative politicking you trip on your own dick.

it's almost like they don't have a compelling, positive, consistent vision of their own to offer

fuck this shitty world

Say increasing diversity makes country better
US 58%
Sweden 36%
UK 33%
Spain 31%
France 26%
Germany 26%
Greece 10%https://t.co/a2cWnURrvU pic.twitter.com/RTV7Oeq7NA

— Conrad Hackett (@conradhackett) December 8, 2017

https://www.theroot.com/felony-charges-against-deandre-harris-dropped-in-charlo-1821138524?utm_source=theroot_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/12/13/there-was-an-enormous-gap-between-black-evangelical-voters-and-white-evangelical-voters-in-alabama/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.44b35c21178f

Here we have WashPo bending over backwards to write a story about the difference between white evangelicals and black evangelicals in Alabama that doesn't end with "white evangelicals in Alabama are racists"

that would be divisive

all articles about white evangelicals should include some variation on "white evangelicals are racist" and/or "white evangelicals are the most unabashedly evil motherfuckers on the planet"