Depression and what it's really like

cleaning with headphones is sometimes fun, depending on what kind of cleaning is being done. cleaning the shower/tub + anything is usually awful, but cleaning mirrors with windex + anything is worth it.

I live part of each week in anxiety world, not depression world but I thought I'd check in, we have some of the same unpleasant headguests I believe? though my anxiety demon lives mainly in my stomach not my head.

Learning to code is something that helped to some degree with my anxiety. I felt an underlying sense that my anxiety was linked to feelings of lack of control and autonomy of my future. Learning to code has been therapeutic but also gives the illusion of shaping some kind of future with more control (its become an actuality over time, still on the journey though). its not without its problems, it can bring its own anxieties (argh why can't I do it), but one really good thing its done for me, is the feeling of conquering something.

its maybe more for the anxiety people than the depression people but idk its something thats helped me to some extent

that's a timely comment, i've been giving python a second shot this past week or two and i'm enjoying it quite a bit this time around. and yeah, working on it gives me little sporadic doses of accomplishment, which is nice. the main difficulty has been in keeping myself from getting distracted. i'll be working on chapter 8 in an online book and then think "i wonder if there's a reddit thread on this book somewhere. wouldn't this be the best time to check, while i'm actually immersed in the book itself?"...flash forward 2 hours and i'm just totally lost in the internet wilderness, totally forgot that python ever existed.

Cherry - totally get the coding thing and think anxiety is tied into depression, certainly anxiety leads to some burn out as well.

I've noticed lately I have to go outside or do something when anxiety sets in, otherwise I just freeze. Freezing is the worst because it feels like literally nothing can be done to get out of that; which is obviously bullshit.

Partially why I drink daily (not overly) is to soothe anxiety I think, but I feel at my best at work honing in on a task or working on music at home.

Anyways shout out to Karl

XP Fuck yes otm to that. Don't think I've focused for more than two minutes on anything in three years or more

Cherry - totally get the coding thing and think anxiety is tied into depression, certainly anxiety leads to some burn out as well.

It might be semantics but i think its stress that leads to burn out! Stress is linked to things, anxiety is kind of more abstract, unconnected. I think stress is a good thing, in small or manageable doses, because you get the feeling of conquering it after the obstacle is removed. Ive realized for me at least anxiety is what happens when you avoid all stressful things. Then it builds up in the background, the nagging worries that are have now become disconnected and have a life of their own, and cant be pinned down to vanquish. I think we need to feel bad things that are real and then overcome them otherwise they appear on their own terms, down the line

Freezing is the worst because it feels like literally nothing can be done to get out of that; which is obviously bullshit.

One of the things thats helped me - is actually helping someone else. My friend is learning to code and i have basically become her full time mentor. She has anxiety issues as well, and i can see when she gets overwhelmed by it (she disappears), keeping her on the straight and narrow has been good for me too

i'll be working on chapter 8 in an online book

I have lots of advice around this (I started out with a huge python book, i never got past page 5).

Are you building things? Online courses and books and stuff have their place, and different methods work for different people. But whats worked best for me is building things. The problems that come up are organic, and the solutions organic too - learning how to learn, sifting through google or stackoverflow or github. the conquering of problems is more satisfying and also you start to have things you can show people.

Also it holds your attention longer than completing abstract and unconnected exercises, you have a connection to what you've put together

I'm in javascript world now, not python. the thing im working on now is something that shows flows of refugees across the world from country to country on a map. I have no idea how to do this - yet!

You know, i put this on the thread for the anxiety people but maybe the depression people could get some benefit out of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9golHCCdg4

its the story of an english guy who became a drug king pin in arizona then spent 6 years in Supermax, and is now back in the UK. I dont watch many podcasts but this is the best I've watched for a bunch of reasons. Recommend highly

i've been giving python a second shot this past week or two

Oh, also, i recommend joining slack and finding some public slack python groups, people doing the same thing as you. the community is probably good (i am in some for ReactJS) and having people in same situation as you is much better for state of mind than by self (and i say this as someone who is very much a go in the woods alone type person)

Are you building things?

i'm trying to build a sensor-driven multi-channel video installation for a show next spring. i got really motivated earlier this year (documented here) and taught myself beginners python (and raspberry pi and linux, all of which was new to me so a bit of a slog) and got most of the way there with a prototype: i had it so that it would seamlessly loop between randomized pools of video clips, endlessly. one time i even let it loop overnight, to make sure it would work for several hours straight. i admit that i celebrated a bit. this was like the textbook mini-accomplishment milestone that you were talking about.

but then, disaster struck. for some reason, the video began freezing and crashing after a weirdly specific number of loops - i think it was either 61 or 43...something prime. anyway, the same exact piece of python code that worked for many hours straight now crashed, every single time. it was maddening. i tried to work back through my iterations of code to a stable version, but every step backward led to new complications and things that didn't happen before. i know it sounds like baloney but it happened.

i decided to take a little "breather" from python and then 7 months went by and i suddenly remembered that i have to build this fucking thing and i was *this* close to getting a working prototype going way back in april. so now i'm back on the saddle

anyway my other near-to-midterm goal is to keep going and then revive that raspberry pi with my progress. i'm trying to rewrite the entire thing, this time with a slightly better grasp on python.

revive that raspberry pi ^thread^ with my progress

Sounds a really good project. Do you use git or some kind of version control? like how were you going back through the different versions?

For me at leat, the best approach with coding is to work on something every day, like, exercise, the regularity is more important than the volume, or even the output.

With my friend shes on this self-devised program to start applying for dev jobs by March, trying to stick to a little a day but she gives herself off days and I can see thats going to lead to falling behind and then feeling adrift and overwhelmed and panicked feelings

Hello, Incomprehensible Demoralization. I honestly thought I'd seen the last of you, but lo and behold

Thinking about leaving it all behind and starting a new career, a new town somewhere else. Tired of depression pigeonholing me; fuck this shit. Anyone else picked up and just relocated? (I got some connections elsewhere)

I tried that twice and it didn't work for me for various reasons.
First time I moved to a city where no-one knew me to start a new job (same career though). In a way it helped, because no-one had any preconceived ideas about who I was, so I was free to pretend to people that I didn't have problems. That might be pressuring for some people but I found it liberating. The problem was that my depression and anxiety were still there, and combined with a stressful work environment left me feeling as bad as before.
I got made redundant from that job along with about half the company, and couldn't find another gig quickly enough to stay in the city. This prompted my second move - again not a career change, but this time it was a move to a place where I had previous connections. In a way that was worse, because as well as my problems, I had to deal with the bullshit of people I knew.
I've never had a face-to-face support network as such, so YMMV, but I found that working/hanging out with a group of people who were practically strangers took a lot of pressure off. But on the other hand I discovered that depression (and anxiety to a lesser extent) isn't something that's possible to walk away from, and trying to pretend that it was in a way made things worse later.

Actually make that four times - the two additional times preceding the two above.
I moved away to go to university at 18, and my experience was pretty much the same as when I moved to the city above. I could reinvent myself and pretend things were different but the depression was still there.
After university I moved somewhere else, again somewhere I had connections already, and that too was as above. Other people's bullshit added to my depression was worse somehow.

I guess really what I'm saying is that it depends on where you're moving to, what kind of work situation you'll be in when you get there, and what kind of social environment you're going to have to deal with. In my experience, my problems didn't go away when I tried to ignore them, but in other ways things got easier when I didn't have to deal with other people's crap and expectations as well.

Snoball otm, great posts

Depression finds a way, the dividends are endless - fuck you money for life

Maybe wanting to get away is some foolish notion, but what is life but kicking against the pricks

I moved, I started a new career. Its been mixed. The thing is, its two changes at once and that complicates things. I wouldn't advise against it per se, but if either of the two are flimsy one might compromise the other

If you move it has to be towards something, it could also be temporary, that can take the pressure out of it. eg move to Cork for 6 months, less riding on it then.

But if depression is anything like anxiety then you can't move away from it anymore than you can move away from your stomach.

What career change are you thinking of doing? I changed career, I moved away, I don't have depression but I do have anxiety (and maybe they are the same thing anyway I don't even know)

Changing career is easier than I thought it would be but it depends what you are changing it to. It can be demoralizing at times but it can also be empowering. For me, deep down, anxiety is about lack of control over life, manifested in abstract ways. Ive come to think of anxiety as a rational response to a world in which for whatever reason we don't feel control over life. A career change can give you some of that, a move for the sake of it, less so. I have felt positivity coursing through my veins from it, and the complete disappearance of anxiety. Its deep rooted though, and it will come back.

I read some descriptions of depression that sounded similar to anxiety, so maybe its the same. I liken anxiety to walking on a high ledge, churning up inside at the danger of being so high, but if there were obstacles on the ledge weirdly it would be easier as you have to look at the obstacles not the fact you are hundred feet up on a high ledge. having these obstacles on the ledge stops you looking around and realizing you're fucked because you're on a high ledge.

I went to therapy and it was all about how to cope with this anxiety thing inside me like it was a problem with me, but what if that thing were completely rational? and if it were rational might we approach it differently.

None of the above might be appropriate for someone with depression I don't know, but as an anxiety sufferer thats my story for anxiety sufferers and I'm sticking to it!

Also, one thing thats helped with my anxiety is helping others - and I think thats something to do with control again, you're helping bring control to someone else and subconsciously thats showing you same for self

I understand why people take coke now! I was always someone that preferred escapist drugs. But life when anxiety isn't there is like being on coke! and what is coke apart from feeling in control, hey I got this!

Wow cherry that's a beautiful post <3

That's my initial reaction

I've often considered it but I think if it didn't work out it would feel horrendeous. If I change everything about my life and I'm still unhappy, how do I shake off the sense that problem is simply me?

I don't (usually) post to this thread because my issues are around anxiety rather than depression. Really like the cherry blossom posts.

file this under "too good to be true": dr. recommends a mood-stabilizer and tells me i'm covered (free) under Plan G (health act) due to my history of bipolar/depression. Turns out the med isn't on the approved list and every anti-depressant is also not recommended as I had an isolated manic episode 7 years back, basically eliminating the majority of any medications i'm eligible for. yeah i know i can pay, but mental health systems still need a shit ton of work obviously, and the act in place sucks

i'm sure it's a lot worse elsewhere too, but yeah, thought there was some hope there. all in all, less depressed tho

I don't know if this is depression or compassion fatigue or just too much of everything. Fuck 2018 and fuck everything.

keep in there, mate

need some advice. my friend seems ready to give up and is saying stuff that really scares me. she doesn't want help from me or anyone, not sure what to do

Can you get her out of the house? Invite her for a coffee, movie, something? Can you get her a Pema Chodron book and ask her to read at least one page per day? If you can just persist with these small steps, maybe something starts to give?

I work with her and we sometimes have lunch but she's cut out everyone outside of work. I've asked her to hang out but she wants me to leave her alone. Afraid I can't do much atm but respect her wishes, I called the crisis hotline yesterday but they said it would be better if she called. She doesn't want to; she's talking about assisted suicide. I dont know how to reach out to her family so I'm stuck

agh, i can only sympathize with you, unfortunately I've no practical advice. always seems so difficult to help someone when they're at that level of depression and where they reject your help.

I've just recently started taking venlafaxine. at 33 and after a lifetime of depression and anxiety I've finally started on the pills. it's working well for me so far, feeling hopeful and have energy.

Good to hear you're feeling better, Jim. I've recently started anti depressants and feeling pretty well! Here's to a better 2018..

Ross is it possible that your employer has next of kin details or could offer her some kind of counselling appointment?

Definitely possible NV, I would have to ask the manager (who is aware of her struggles to some extent). Probably would be a good idea

Wait, don’t tell your manager that you’re coworker is suicidal without her consent. I don’t think that’s the thing ti do.

Yeah I'm very careful right now with every decision

Maybe I should ask her to talk to her parents? She has done a lot of counselling, cbt and meds and claims it all hasn't worked

i'm not sure i've ever felt this low for this long, especially since nothing acutely painful has happen. no deaths in the family, no physical health issues. it's all been part of a very long slide. really, ever since i quit my job about a year and a half ago. i quit because i was really depressed and i thought that it was the job causing it. but i've been so down for so long that now i see that depressed time as a time of stability and possibility. i don't know wtf i'm doing now. i used to be against antidepressants, for me. not for anyone else. in fact, just about all the closest people in my life are on antidepressants and have been for many years. but i never wanted them. my mom and i only had one talk about them in high school, and i refused to even consider it. i wanted to beat the damn thing on my own, and plus i had seen too many people close to me get worse after taking them, like bad mental and physical side effects. and then in my 20s i had a good stretch for a few years and i thought i was over it. but now i don't even care. i really feel like a boxer who is staggering, like one real blow could knock me out, one from someone dying or someone getting sick, or a war, or my partner leaving me, anything, all of these real things that can happen, some of which can't be avoided. i don't care if it doesn't have an effect, or if it makes things worse. but in order to talk to someone, i have to get a real job again, one which would either cover mental health or pay me enough to allow me to cover it on my own. getting a job is something i would have just DONE at most stages in my life. i'd just keep trying until it was done. why does it seem so impossible right now? there are piles of clothes on the floor all around my bed, i haven't touched them for weeks. not that long ago i would make a point to make the bed every day and keep the room looking sharp. now it's just dark blue in here all the time, and i step around and over the piles. i haven't mustered the will to check out my student loans in MONTHS. every day it's at the top of the to list, and i don't do it. it will take two minutes. it seems fucking impossible.

thank god for my dog. some days she is the only reason i leave the house and walk around. right now she's relaxing on my foot, ready to go out, saving the day yet again, cutting this mercifully short. oof. sorry not sorry for posting this, i'm not looking for advice or support or kind words or anything. i know what i have to do. i have to gtfo my house and go to a coffee shop, or the library, and see how bad the student loan damage is, then update my resume, make up some bullshit for the one and a half years i haven't been employed, and then work at some shit job i don't want to do, all so that i can talk to someone who has the legal authority to help me change my brain so that i don't think this way any longer.

i used to be against antidepressants, for me. not for anyone else. in fact, just about all the closest people in my life are on antidepressants and have been for many years. but i never wanted them. my mom and i only had one talk about them in high school, and i refused to even consider it. i wanted to beat the damn thing on my own, and plus i had seen too many people close to me get worse after taking them, like bad mental and physical side effects.

honestly as someone who suffers from pretty serious depressive bouts from time to time this is still how I feel

good luck KM

Wait, don’t tell your manager that you’re coworker is suicidal without her consent. I don’t think that’s the thing ti do.

― treeship 2

if someone is standing on the edge of a bridge you don't have to get their consent to call the cops

no advice KM but listening anyway

xp i'm not saying ross *should* tell the boss, i don't really have enough info on the situation. just saying in my estimation keeping people safe is more important than keeping people's confidence

i guess my line of work is a little different since i don't work with adults

yeah same and I would explore all other options first but

I hear you Karl. And I’m sorry. It sucks.

she's talking about assisted suicide.

while this is not in itself a good sign, she is unlikely to be able to avail herself of assisted suicide, due to safeguards within the laws. and in seeking a physician's assistance to die she would also reveal her suicidal ideation to a medical professional and get further assistance with her depression.

i know what i have to do. i have to gtfo my house

maybe divide that into even smaller pieces. stand up? ok. put on a coat? can do. walk to the door? give me a moment and I'll get there. open the door? well, I guess it's right in front of me. etc. take a breath after each step ahead. reassure yourself.

its the piles of stuff that always overwhelm. The unironed shirts, the unpacked boxes, the sink full of dishes. They never seem to go away, they just get managed into smaller and bigger piles to maintain the facade of functionality.

I dont claim to be an expert but if you sincerely believe your colleague is a risk to their own health then you should act. Even if the worst were to happen and they were to lose their job its better than losing their life.

KM it breaks my heart to learn you *want* to get help but can't get it because of some bollocks coverage depending on having a job, which is now unavailable to you. That's a punch to the stomach right there. And I genuinely feel for you, the best of all people, to be living in a once civilized place turned into a shithole country so quickly and ruthlessly, for help not being within your reach.

The piles of stuff overwhelm, for sure. I have been tiptoeing around the shards of a broken porcelain plate in my kitchen for two weeks now. Some mean shards out there. It's getting to the point where I almost don't see the shards anymore, instead of just sweeping them up and be done with it. It's a ridiculous dance to perform every day, but here I am. It's not unlike the clothes scattered around your room. I just hope you know that negligence is a *symptom* of depression, and not a stand alone thing *on top of* it. It's not something that of itself adds to your problems, it's caused by it. That doesn't sound like any consolation, and it isn't on its face, but know that it's not just another singular thing on your pile of misery; it's there because you are trying to fry bigger fish. You'll throw that stuff in the washing machine tomorrow, or the day after, or next week. That's ok. Getting to the root of this is what's really key.

It goes without saying you can drop me a line through here or fb or whatever whenever you like, if you want to chat or just rant, you know that right? I do really hope you can find some way to get professional help. Sending my love, and be in touch if you want to.

don't be sorry, karl. i have some of the same problems where i know what i have to do it but cannot do it.