John Lennon Solo Albums Poll

I always liked this record, not as something particularly tuneful (although the whole thing is sung in harmony). I like it as some kind of rhythm record. Doesn't strike me as a disco groove, I don't really know what it is. Do not like the mix.

― timellison, Saturday, November 25, 2017 8:38 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree about the mix, it feels a little bit cluttered and muddy - I always think the bottom end should be a bit beefier. I see what you mean about not considering it to be a disco record - it seems to have more in common with the "plastic soul" that Bowie was doing (even though it predates Young Americans) than what Chic were doing (which it also predates) or even the Bee Gees...

And also there’s bootlegs which seem to show many attempts to try to finish just a few songs in the domestic period, rather than a lot of songs overall.

― Luna Schlosser, Saturday, November 25, 2017 8:48 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yes, I've already covered the fact that the bootlegs in and of themselves don't prove anything other than Lennon was writing songs.

https://www.le.ac.uk/ebulletin-archive/ebulletin/features/2010-2019/2010/10/npimageset.2011-01-14.8388450332/article.jpg

xxpost:

It's unusual, thinking about it, because even though I think a fair amount of Lennon's Walls and Bridges output is nowhere near his greatest work, I can't really fault the production on stuff like '#9 Dream', 'Steel and Glass' or 'What You Got' ... but yeah, 'Whatever Gets You Through The Night' could have been better.

Can we all just agree that Lennon had “good song” writers block? We can? Good.

Anyway, “Whatever Gets You Through the Night” is shit.

Whenever I think of the track, the first thing that pops into my head is the fucking sax break!

It’s like the worst track ever, I agree. Sonic vomit

i like it. sorta repetitive but w/e. production is fine. surprised so many here dislike it, hate it even. #9 dream is the keeper from W&B tho

'#9 Dream' is one of my favourite things Lennon ever did, including with The Beatles, so I can't disagree. Sublime production, string arrangement, lyrics, melody, chord progression... everything just came together beautifully on that song.

Yes.

Wah filter ftw

#9 Dream is ear candy but not much more. Which, given what we were getting from Lennon around that time, isn’t nothing.

I haven’t read any of the Lennon biographies but here’s what I believe we do know:

*Lennon recorded about two albums’ worth of material when he came out of retirement in 1979-80.

*In the intervening 37 years, not much new music from Lennon has emerged from 1975-1980. The “Dakota” disc on Lennon Anthology didn’t add that much to the canon.

*Lennon hadn’t exactly been at the top of his game for the previous 3 or 4 years either. Quality-wise, the songs he recorded when he returned were probably better than what he was writing before he retired but rarely a patch on his work pre-Mind Games (I rate three really good songs apiece on DF and M&H but YMMV).

*Team Yoko has very carefully presented what we know about those years.

*John Lennon didn’t write a ton of music around the time of Sgt. Pepper either – Ian MacDonald notes that he was in bed a lot and his productivity immediately prior to meeting Yoko was low.

What we don’t know:

*Whether he has “writer’s block” from 1975 on (is that even a real thing BTW? I mean, do psychologists actually diagnose this? or is it just a catch-all phrase for “I can’t write stuff”)

*Whether Lennon had a drug problem in those years.

*How “happy” Lennon actually was during that time (one thing we do know about artists is that many tend to be productive when they are in turmoil).

*Whether he actually baked bread.

So is it possible Yoko Ono is hoarding some treasure trove of material John wrote during those years? I suppose. But unless there’s a good reason she hasn’t come out with them, it seems pretty unlikely. Does that mean he was blocked? Maybe? Or maybe he was just uninterested in music – which frankly seems a lot more in keeping with what we actually know about his life then as well as him from before.

Also, Turrican, aren’t you also having some fight over on the George Harrison thread about the number of Beatles references in their solo work? What gives?

I don't know - already having said my thoughts on the matter might have something to do with it!

Turrican is kind of weird. Doesn’t like Presence. Sad

I would also just add: I don’t think there is any way any of us can really understand what it was like to be a Beatle and the impact an experience like that would have. Yes, it was only a decade, and, yes, there is no lack of stars that have blown up unimaginably in the years since, facing all the same paparazzi mania.

But it’s not actually that surprising that Lennon pretty much tanked for most of the decade after they broke up. When you consider that no band since has even come close to having the same cultural significance—and then, how many issues he had to work out from his childhood through his marriage to Cynthia and abandonment of Julian, etc.—it kind of makes sense that he might have simply dried up creatively once he separated from all that and started a new family. Many others have found themselves creatively spent dealing with less.

And FWIW, this isn’t exactly unique to Lennon within the Beatles. Outside of what came out in the immediate aftermath (POB, ATMP, “Maybe I’m Amazed,” etc.), the more time passes, the more you realize how little of the music the Beatles made music outside of the band compares even remotely favorably to what they did together. And, that’s okay.

Nah, I disagree... McCartney continued to write classics for a long time after the Beatles split.

cf. "One of These Days"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPizFm-2jo8

“I don’t think there is any way any of us can really understand what it was like to be a Beatle”
No shit?

The more time passes, the more I realise that McCartney was essentially the driving force during the later Beatles years - not just in terms of coming up with concepts and pulling the band together to work, but... Ram sounds more like Abbey Road than Imagine or All Things Must Pass do.

McCartney kept delivering hit after hit for decades, and wrote a great number of classics from 1970 onwards, and to be honest, I'd rather hear him talk more about that stuff than The Beatles again.

Give me 'Once Upon a Long Ago' over 'Tell Me What You See' any day of the week.

I agree with all that. In the case of McCartney, his craftsmanship alone carried him along after inspiration left him (even some of those songs are classics – craftsmanship counts a lot in pop). But do *any* of those songs (again, those not released in the rush of the breakup) really rank w their Beatles work?

That’s not a knock on the later songs. It’s a credit to the earlier ones, what each brought to them and what the Beatles enterprise brought to them.

“I don’t think there is any way any of us can really understand what it was like to be a Beatle”
No shit?

Yes, I think songs like 'Jet', 'Bluebird', 'My Love', 'Live and Let Die', 'The Note You Never Wrote', 'With a Little Luck', 'Coming Up', 'Take It Away', 'My Brave Face', 'This One', 'Calico Skies' etc. (I could go on - I won't) are as good as any song he wrote 1962-1969.

In fact, if we view Paul's Beatle songs for what they are, rather than just assuming they have some sort of automatic superiority (which they don't) then I would rank plenty of Paul's post-Beatles stuff higher than 'P.S. I Love You', 'Hold Me Tight', 'Tell Me What You See', 'Every Little Thing', 'I'll Follow The Sun', 'All Together Now', 'Your Mother Should Know', 'Yellow Submarine', 'Lovely Rita', 'Rocky Raccoon', 'She Came in Through the Bathroom Window' etc.

This is before we get to 'Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da' and 'Maxwell's Silver Hammer' ... I'll take 'Listen to What the Man Said' and 'Silly Love Songs' over either.

Junk, One of These Days, Coming Up are absolutely among his best.

and McCartney II is a stone cold curveball classic, no other Beatle ever made something as progressive & idiosyncratic & intuitive & of its time after 1970.

When I first dug into solo McCartney in the late 90s, I actually tried to make the case to a fellow musician friend of mine that Paul’s post-Beatles work was as good as his Beatles stuff and in some cases better (this isn’t something you can really try to do with Lennon). I played him songs like “Arrow Through Me,” “Back Seat of My Car,” “However Absurd,” “I’m Carrying,” and “Letting Go.” He looked at me like I had three heads. Which wasn’t a knock on the songs – he liked them fine. But the idea that this was world-changing stuff was silly to him.

The point is, I’m not reducing this to Beatles = Better. And you will find few ILMers more enamored with McCartney than me. I prefer his stuff to a lot of Beatles material in part because there is still something for me to discover. That medley at the end of Red Rose Speedway with the nonsense lyrics tells me more about the artist who made it than another listen to side two of Abbey Road.

Are their best solo moments better than or “When I’m Sixty-Four” or “Good Morning, Good Morning”? Sure. But there are no solo tracks these guys did as deathless as “Yesterday” or “Norwegian Wood,” as deeply weird as “Happiness Is a Warm Gun” or “Helter Skelter,” or as perfect as “Martha My Dear” or “I’m a Loser.”

And again, that’s fine. I like living in a world with all these things.

"I prefer his stuff to a lot of Beatles material in part because there is still something for me to discover."
this is a great point

Johnny will be spinning in his grave.

yeah like i could never make the case that "beware my love" or "loup" is better than "for no one" or "hey jude" or whatever but finding yourself in the zone for speed of sound or red rose speedway is a pleasant experience and the journey should be savored imo. precisely because it's quirky and odd and not always "finished" or polished (in songcraft, performance, and/or production). sorta like how i feel about the white album tbh. or 70s dylan. there are lots of artist where it's fun to just spend time rummaging in their back catalogs and back pages.

"Cookin' (in the Kitchen of Love)" on Ringo's Rotogravure is from early in the John Lennon retirement period.

en I first dug into solo McCartney in the late 90s, I actually tried to make the case to a fellow musician friend of mine that Paul’s post-Beatles work was as good as his Beatles stuff and in some cases better (this isn’t something you can really try to do with Lennon). I played him songs like “Arrow Through Me,” “Back Seat of My Car,” “However Absurd,” “I’m Carrying,” and “Letting Go.” He looked at me like I had three heads.

To be fair, I also probably would have looked at you like you had three heads if you tried to prove this with 'Arrow Through Me' and particularly 'However Absurd' - bad choices.

But there are no solo tracks these guys did as deathless as “Yesterday”...

'Live and Let Die'

as deeply weird as “Happiness Is a Warm Gun” or “Helter Skelter,”

'Secret Friend'

or as perfect as “Martha My Dear”

'No More Lonely Nights' ('Martha My Dear' is a really bad example)

My rankings.

excellent post alfred, though i would (predictably perhaps) put #2 as #1

My rankings🕸.