The movie is a lot better than the trailer led me to expect
― JRN, Monday, 20 November 2017 04:35 (six years ago) link
I loathed Frances Ha and Mistress America, just awful,oh come on― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)I love your response otherwise though!― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)garbage like 20th Century Womenwait wtf― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson)I'm not a fan but I can understand what (lots and lots) of my filmcrit friends saw in it.― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)flappy - 20th century women rules....eh?― Week of Wonders (Ross)
oh come on
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)
I love your response otherwise though!
garbage like 20th Century Women
wait wtf
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson)
I'm not a fan but I can understand what (lots and lots) of my filmcrit friends saw in it.
flappy - 20th century women rules....eh?
― Week of Wonders (Ross)
Haven't seen Frances Ha since it came out 5 years ago but I really hated it, the world doesn't need another second of Woody Allen cosplay. It came out around the same time Girls premiered on HBO and I was just completely fed up with struggling artists (?) in love letters to NYC. Mistress America is fresh in my mind, I remember that one being just so weightless and full of noxious whimsy and silliness, as if Baumbach was trying to outdo the worst of Wes Anderson. I rewatched Greenberg tonight after making my initial post and seeing the responses, and it's even better than I remember. Brilliant movie. The Greenberg character is incredible, such a beautiful excoriation of a certain type of meek hipster that is all too often exalted and excused for in movies, culture, and society. The scene when he's doing coke with the millennials and he's going off about how he's better than them because they're "so sincere, and confident, and you don't have any hangups, and you listen to older, smart people...like me." The movie is such a fantastic dark satire, totally absurd at times, and I really despised Frances Ha & Mistress America because it was as if Baumbach embraced the sensibility of the effigy that he completely torched in his last movie.
20th Century Women... this is what I wrote at the time:
Mike Mills makes the same mistake here, presenting one-dimensional archetypes instead of the real people he claims to pay homage to. Some autobiography. 20th Century Women is slotted with scarecrows: the neurotic teenage boy who’s obviously a stand-in for the director (Lucas Jade Zumann); the slightly older girl that the director always wanted to fuck but got emotionally toyed with instead (Elle Fanning); the boy’s eccentric and often embarrassing free spirit of a mother (Annette Bening); and the new wave art girl who lived on the Lower East Side in the mid-1970s and moved back home, whose sole purpose is to give us reason to believe any of these people would be listening to Suicide and The Talking Heads or wearing Lou Reed and Devo t-shirts (that would be Greta Gerwig).
Do we really need another poignant scene of parents freaking out over Black Flag? Pick your generation and band of choice—20th Century Women is pure nostalgia porn, an exercise that should’ve been carried out in private, for much less money.
― flappy bird, Monday, 20 November 2017 04:39 (six years ago) link
also 20th Century Women was so obviously written by a dude from a dude's perspective. I found the whole conceit at best a complete failure, at worst really disingenuous.
― flappy bird, Monday, 20 November 2017 04:40 (six years ago) link
I wouldn't say they freaked out over Black Flag; they were bemused.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up0pJ4Otvkk
― clemenza, Monday, 20 November 2017 04:57 (six years ago) link
The trailer isn’t very indicative of the movie, but I did love it’s use of the Monkees’ “As We Go Along.”
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Monday, 20 November 2017 13:12 (six years ago) link
after the third-or-so appearance of "Crash" by DMB I was about to cry uncle
― ur-oik (rip van wanko), Monday, 20 November 2017 13:37 (six years ago) link
(that was my point of empathy with Kyle/bf2)
― ur-oik (rip van wanko), Monday, 20 November 2017 13:40 (six years ago) link
I agree with the Facebook clickbait article about how more characters in movies should have bad taste in music.
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Monday, 20 November 2017 13:52 (six years ago) link
Or, rather, fewer should flaunt their directors' ostensibly amazing taste in music.
Dunno about "Facebook clickbait," but I assume you're talking about this Steven Hyden piece? http://uproxx.com/movies/lady-bird-dave-matthews-band-in-defense-of-fictional-uncool-music-taste/
― Beret McKesson (jaymc), Monday, 20 November 2017 14:13 (six years ago) link
I was being a little glib. I agree with the sentiment.
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Monday, 20 November 2017 14:16 (six years ago) link
here's my thinkpiece: I Loved This Movie But "Crash into Me" Has Been Stuck in My Head for Almost 24 Hours
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 20 November 2017 19:40 (six years ago) link
It’s one thing, for instance, to make Margot a Rolling Stones fan in The Royal Tenenbaums, but isn’t it a little much that she plays “She Smiles Sweetly,” a largely unknown cut from 1967’s Between The Buttons, on a frickin’ record player?
this is p dumb imo (oh big surprise from a st*ve hyd*n piece)
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 20 November 2017 19:42 (six years ago) link
I haven't seen this yet (or read the Hyden thing, lol) but I broadly agree with the sentiment that many filmmakers err on the side of hipness instead of what's "in character" / setting-appropriate
― Simon H., Monday, 20 November 2017 19:46 (six years ago) link
In 2001 it might have been a little much (the record player portion, that is).
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Monday, 20 November 2017 19:46 (six years ago) link
Anderson is kind of immune from this criticism since his movies are generally not populated with humans
― Simon H., Monday, 20 November 2017 19:48 (six years ago) link
and even if they were they wouldn't have heard R&B.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 20 November 2017 19:48 (six years ago) link
but Royal Tenenbaums isn't grounded in reality in the same way that Perks of Being a Wallflower or 20th Century Women are. criticizing the turntable and the obscure Stones track is like criticizing the tent that Richie lives in. fwiw Royal Tenenbaums is the only Wes Anderson movie I really love, because the balance of whimsy and real people is just right.
― flappy bird, Monday, 20 November 2017 19:50 (six years ago) link
taking sides: bikini kill poster in bedroom vs. cd wallet full of greatest hits collections
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 20 November 2017 19:51 (six years ago) link
fwiw Royal Tenenbaums is the only Wes Anderson movie I really love, because the balance of whimsy and real people is just right
On the contrary, this is the one where it first started to feel out of whack.
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Monday, 20 November 2017 19:52 (six years ago) link
I guess no one has pointed out that the thread title is not exactly accurate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nights_and_Weekends
― Simon H., Monday, 20 November 2017 19:54 (six years ago) link
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, November 20, 2017 2:51 PM (thirty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Sleater-Kinney poster too! So this movie did kinda violate the look-i'm-hip rule, and leaves us a little confused as to Lady Bird's tastes. (she also like Kyle's band and tbh I was digging the first song..)
― ur-oik (rip van wanko), Monday, 20 November 2017 20:30 (six years ago) link
I saw those posters and they seemed legit to me. Dig me out and bikini kill's singles cd were common and cheap in 2001-2003. I think they were about $11 new around that time? and signaling ostensible hipness isn't incompatible with being unwilling to disparage ... dmb, Alanis, or other uncool middle school loves. if anything, I think it says something about lady bird's stubbornness and confidence.
lots of teenagers had patchwork, magpie taste. the band really fit, too! they sounded way more like that anodyne-but -intricate late-90s/early-00s emo than anything contemporary. you have even less agency over what local bands you happen to see and like than cds you buy/steal/get for Christmas.
call it friend rock, boyfriend rock, classmate rock, older sibling rock...
― bamcquern, Monday, 20 November 2017 21:00 (six years ago) link
^^^ i actually agree with this, and i think it's what i was trying to say with that (sorta glib) taking sides post
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:03 (six years ago) link
i hella listened to dave matthews band and sonic youth in high school
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:04 (six years ago) link
wasn't there an uncool cd rehabilitation scene in that recent Jenny slate movie? I like how these scenes give context and character to a song that might not have positive associations from your own life when it was on the radio. like I have fond memories lying on the carpet hearing pm dawn, but I felt I was seeking agency and authenticity when "crash" was popular and the song felt incompatible with that.
― bamcquern, Monday, 20 November 2017 21:06 (six years ago) link
if she'd had Dig Me Out and No Fences and the Bikini Kill comp and Under the Table and Dreaming in her CD wallet, then the NYC music snob would have called her tastes "eclectic" xp
― ur-oik (rip van wanko), Monday, 20 November 2017 21:09 (six years ago) link
i can't fathom how this movie was rated R.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 00:44 (six years ago) link
if a movie has any hint of homosexuality, it's no longer even PG-13.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 00:46 (six years ago) link
the word "cunt" was said twice.
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 00:51 (six years ago) link
that's all I got
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 00:52 (six years ago) link
if i were willing to valorize dave matthews, i'd expect the ratings board to give me blanket immunity.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 01:02 (six years ago) link
shoulda been listenin to Mary J Blige's "Family Affair"
― fuck you, your hat is horrible (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 01:09 (six years ago) link
semitumescent penis guys
― ur-oik (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 21 November 2017 01:16 (six years ago) link
it's rated R?????? wtf
I didn't notice the posters! Even if it is signaling taste, it's realistic & makes sense to me (Sleater-Kinney toured with Pearl Jam in the early 00s, anyone that liked Nirvana and did the most elementary research the name Bikini Kill would come up, cf. the origin of the title "Smells Like Teen Spirit"). More importantly, posters in the background =/= long scenes devoted to discussing cool music. bamcquern otm re: the boy's band
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 02:30 (six years ago) link
yeah I don't really know why it was Rated R. We took my 11 1/2 year old because my wife didn't want to leave him home alone and we didn't want to pay for a sitter. It was fine, he already knows about sex and just kind of hid his face in the one half-graphic scene, which really wans't any more graphic that what you see on network TV these days.
I loved this film. I grew up in Sacramento, to a point (moved when I was 8 1/2 in 1981, so quite a bit earlier) and retain some kind of nostalgia for it which this movie kind of vindicated, though it's a pretty glorified image of it, the city is certainly shit in lots of ways. I loved that they were excited for the State Fair and the log ride which was also my favorite thing when I was a kid.
this is one of the better coming of age movies I've ever seen; she very realistically straddles that stubborn awful teenage willfullness with something more mature; and I like that in the end, personally, I believe she's right; she did need to move out of Sacramento.
― akm, Tuesday, 21 November 2017 13:37 (six years ago) link
saw it cold, loved it, recommend it.
― gimme the beet poison, free my soul (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 01:49 (six years ago) link
liked it also, yes v good re coming of age
lady bird as a character reminded some of anna pacquins character in margaret
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 01:57 (six years ago) link
gotta say too that the save a horse ride a cowboy tshirts @ that western party (?) made me immed think of ilx/ilm
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 01:58 (six years ago) link
ha me too, although I remember Big & Rich as a late '03 phenomenon.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 02:02 (six years ago) link
It just hit trope after trope: gay boyfriend in theatre; prettier girl ignores the kind fat best friend until a lesson is learned.
And then the worst one: NYC as savior (mixed in with some remembrance for the old country).
As my friend said while the credits rolled: ‘doesn’t the next one start just about now?’
Sarosie Ronan is unbelievable, but I don’t get the praise
― lion in winter, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 07:31 (six years ago) link
Do you not like tropes
― .oO (silby), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 07:34 (six years ago) link
And then the worst one: NYC as savior
huh. did you watch this movie
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 08:41 (six years ago) link
yeah it was super tropey but sorta in the way of like, hey, if you're gonna do a tropey high school movie, I'm throwing down the gauntlet: do it at LEAST this well, or don't bother. the script was so good and sharp and funny and well-observed even when the situations were seen-it-a-million-times. the fury road of senior-year movies.new york is not pitched as a savior tho - she has the same baggage there, is encountering the same dumbass dudes, and is making some of the same mistakes even. SHE goes there thinking it's the marvelous land of oz and it genuinely means a lot to her to be leaving home, but the movie gives us plenty of space to not buy into that... indeed to realize she'll grow up to be someone who can look back on this as a fairly dopey wide-eyed move that put a lot of pressure on her parents' finances and that sacramento isn't all bad (etc etc). but that it all turns out right in the end.only thing that bugs me is the handling of her name in the very last scene. might have come off differently to me ten or five years ago, but in 2017 it felt weirdly situated re: trans identity and now it feels like a movie i should not recommend to friends blindly.
― gimme the beet poison, free my soul (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 13:40 (six years ago) link
Well, Lady Bird isn't exactly sympathetic to her closeted boyfriend's situation until the moment he collapses in her arms. So woke she ain't.
― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 13:41 (six years ago) link
No one was. Period piece.
it was tropey but it did things that pretty in pink brought up, and did them right (it's no accident that both the dresses she picks are pink). for instance: the probably gay friend turns out to be actually gay here. And, she sides with some real friends in the end, rather than going with the douche.
"only thing that bugs me is the handling of her name in the very last scene. might have come off differently to me ten or five years ago, but in 2017 it felt weirdly situated re: trans identity and now it feels like a movie i should not recommend to friends blindly." Huh, I'm not reading you.
― akm, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 13:42 (six years ago) link
we're supposed to find it touching and powerful that she sheds her chosen name for the "good name" her parents gave her. feel like for a lot of people, that will be a super unpleasant moment that throws them out of the movie.
― gimme the beet poison, free my soul (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 13:57 (six years ago) link
it may but hopefully they can see outside their own selves enough that its real & works for this character, perspective of distance from her parents illuminating how they did the best they could &c &c
― johnny crunch, Wednesday, 22 November 2017 14:06 (six years ago) link
maybe? i dunno? just saying that it makes me feel like i'd be being a dick to tell all my friends oh man you will LOVE this movie, it gets everything right!
― gimme the beet poison, free my soul (Doctor Casino), Wednesday, 22 November 2017 14:20 (six years ago) link
I guess that's good/clever casting! xp
― current (jed_), Thursday, 2 April 2020 00:51 (four years ago) link
Christine 'Lady Bird' McPherson: Just because something looks ugly doesn't mean that it's morally wrong.
GINNI THOMAS: You think dead children aren't morally wrong?
Christine 'Lady Bird' McPherson: No. I'm just saying that, if you took up close pictures of my vagina while I was on my period, it would be disturbing but it doesn't make it wrong.
― the talented mr pimply (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 4 September 2024 22:57 (one month ago) link