IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

he song was written by the frequent team of Dan Hartman and Charlie Midnight, whose most recent big score was "Living In America." Hartman, a name I probably should have known already, went all the way back to writing "Free Ride" while in the Edgar Winter Group, so I like to imagine he and Billy understood each other a bit.

and "I Can Dream About You"!

I had no idea that Hartman wrote this! An okay song; would have fit in nicely on The Bridge, and is better than most of what is already on there.

Cute scene, btw, even if the movie itself hasn't aged very well (I posted about it a few years ago on that Disney thread that DC linked).

Released November 18, 1988, the film performed decently but not spectacularly, being beaten in a head-to-head opening-weekend match with The Land Before Time though ultimately outgrossing it

crazy how it outgrossed land before time which is much better remembered now

no numbers for this, but i have to assume LBT crushed it on home video. kids who saw that wanted to see it again... i don't feel like there was the same demand for O&C. an american tail had previously beat great mouse detective at the box office though, so this was in some sense a small comeback for disney. (secret of nimh didn't have disney competition, save a rerelease of bambi, but was part of the larger wave of things that were absolutely wiped out by the success of e.t.)

never heard this song before. don't think i've ever heard *of* it! i like it. totally cute, even though the verse and chorus sound like they're two different songs. he sounds way looser on this than he does on most of the bridge.

footnote 1: he's a good voice actor! he should've done more of that.

footnote 2: i was going to write that this song suggests an alternate second career for him as a randy newman hollywood songwriter guy, if he ever wanted to do the work. but then i saw that he didn't write it. so forget it.

An American Tail was my sister's favorite movie in the late '80s. Lots of sleepovers at my grandma's at which she performed "Somewhere Out There."

"Back in the USSR": nothing surprising, but the band do a good job with it

"Why Should I Worry?": I never saw this movie but I vaguely remember the advertising as a kid. the chorus of this song was used in all the commercials so that part came right back to me as I listened to the song. it's fine, I suppose. yes, better than some of the songs on "The Bridge"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzfTaCXlFag

Just Wanna Hold was the lead track on the solo debut of Mick Jones, by which name I obviously mean the iconic, genre-defining guitarist without whose riffs it is nearly impossible to imagine the sound of ... Foreigner. Sadly, this Jones's solo career stalled out, with just this one album and its underperforming singles to his name. "Just Wanna Hold," supposedly cowritten by a pseudonymous Mick Jagger, features Billy on keys and ostensibly backing vocals. It peaked at #16 on the US Rock Charts.

Billy, Christie Lee and Alexa Ray also turned up for the video shoot, but really I'm just throwing this in here because I won't have time to put the Storm Front intro together today, and because it may be a useful way to establish a baseline for that record: what was the sound of down-the-middle corporate dad-rock in 1989, and where does Billy end up sitting, relative to this template?

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Male pattern baldness, the video

That Jones album got a major push from its label in '89; it's not even remembered as one of the year's biggest bombs.

IN THE WILD: Billy Ray In Aisle 14r

that's two songs in a row whose existence i was unaware of. wow that cover art is bad but also so familiar. that down-the-middle corporate typography.

looking again at youtube - when the hell did MTV2 play this? bizarre programming. the song is obviously trash, relying on the endless repetition of a totally forgettable refrain. and god, that drum track... this is making me think maybe corporate rock did suck. certainly says a lot that any label would think "oh yeah this will be a hit!" or even "well, this is the best thing we got out of the sessions!"

i like how billy blatantly was too busy to make it over for the actual shooting of the video, but just for the afterparty. "everybody's bringing their kids, it'll be fun!" if he even made that... i don't think there's a single shot of him with any of the rest of the band.

I was thinking M2 probably played it during one of those holiday weeks where all videos appeared in alphabetical order.

Those weeks were like Christmas for me, getting to see so many videos that hadn't seen the light of day in decades

I was about to tell a story, but then I remembered I had just told it a little over a month ago: IT'S BETTER THAN DRINKIN' ALONE: The Official ILM Track-by-Track BILLY JOEL Listening Thread

But yeah, miss u m2.

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Storm Front, Billy Joel's eleventh and second-to-last studio pop album, was recorded in 1988 and 1989 and released October 17, 1989. Russell Javors and Doug Stegmeyer, rhythm and bass players since Turnstiles, are replaced by Joey Hunting and Schuyler Deale respectively, and longtime multi-instrumentalist band member Crystal Taliefero joins the band. Itzhak Perlman, Richard Marx, and the Memphis Horns also put in appearances. But who could replace Phil Ramone beind the boards? Why, no one less than the team of Billy himself and jukebox hero Mick Jones, who also plays on five tracks. Suddenly, "Just Want To Hold" makes a bit more sense!

Unbeknownst to me, Jones's music-industry-insider career goes back to the early 60s, he'd done intermittent stints as a songwriter when not in Spooky Tooth, and he had production credits on I think every Foreigner record as well as Van Halen's 5150. So he probably seemed a reasonable choice for the job. AllMusic's bio of him claims he had Billy produce that solo record we just encountered, but then they don't credit him in the album entry itself and I kinda don't buy it. The album was engineered by an up-and-comer named Jay Healy, who'd worked under Jones on an 80s Bad Company record and maybe some Foreigner stuff too. He'd recently done R.E.M.'s Green, among squarer fare; he'd return for River of Dreams, then engineered a string of Mariah Carey smashes before reaching possibly his career height as producer on Live's Secret Samadhi.

With three top-forty singles (including one big hit and another radio recurrent), and supported by a major tour, Storm Front sold well, peaking at #1 in the US and making the top ten in multiple other markets. It's been certified four times platinum, a substantial improvement on The Bridge if not to the level of An Innocent Man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_7PiG1rV9Q

That's Not Her Style, the album opener, was also given a terrible sleeve and made the fifth single. It peaked at #77 on the Hot 11, and #18 on the Album Rock Tracks chart (the sort-of-precursor to today's Mainstream Rock). Almost inevitably as the fifth single from an arena-rock album, its video is a live rendition intercut with footage of excited fans, backup dancers (!), arriving aircraft, scaffolding in construction, etc. It also further brings out the New Country flavor of the song, so if that's a subgenre you dig, give it a whirl.

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Generic.

Storm Front was actually bought by The Kids, thanks to the history lesson jingle. My local CHR station did a phone poll; when I said I disliked "We Didn't Start the Fire" the deejay paused and said, "You don't? Huh. This is burning through the request lines."

I don't like "That's Not Her Style" or "We Didn't Start the Fire" at all. Never have.

But absent those clanging outliers, I like this album, and was still returning to favorite tracks from it decades later.

That encapsulates my relationship with several Joel albums, in fact: I have unalloyed hate for some of the obvious catchy pop hits (e.g., "Uptown Girl," "Tell Her About It," "That's Not Her Style."). And I find the side-2 fillers snooze-inducing. But there is almost always a gem or two that will never leave my brain.

This is boring in that ironically overproduced way that a lot of boomer-aged rock stars were in the 80s and 90s when trying to sound "authentic."

also that is Ian Hunter from Mott the Hoople in that Mick Jones video

also it looks like Cozy Powell on drums?

what a dispiriting affair that song and video is

"That's Not Her Style" I had no memory of but instantly recognized when I played it.

def typical of late 80s boomer gated snare/keyboard horn "roots" rock.

this song is pretty much designed to minimize everything I like about Billy and maximize everything I dislike about him.

this song is pretty much designed to minimize everything I like about Billy and maximize everything I dislike about him.

#truthbomb. Me too.

the hook is at least serviceable. but it's super underwritten for a five minute song. returning to the robert palmer well, now with "rootsy-bluesy" opening (almost anticipating "i can't dance") and prominent harmonica. arena boogie. clearly intended to proclaim that billy is back and this time he's ready to rock, basically the same move as "you may be right" .... what a difference a decade makes. somewhere in canada, a twenty-four year old shania twain thinks "that don't impress me much, and changes the channel.

the lyric is a bit more focused than the stuff on the last album i think, though i'm struggling to imagine margaritas as the drink of jet-setting big shots. and in general the words get lost in all the clatter. still, "mink coated ladies / argentines and kuwaitis" suggests he still has his old sense of words that will just sound interesting together, which will pay off hugely in our next track.

My expression as I listen to this.

I mean, this shouldn't be his style either.

Yeah pretty generic 80's rootsy-rock song but Billy throws in a very catchy chorus. He has such a talent for memorable melodies. there's been an awful lot of songs in this thread that I only listened to once yet I can still remember the hook just from the name

this kind of reminds me of that boring Bruce Willis single, to tie these two together yet again

the hook is at least serviceable. but it's super underwritten for a five minute song

my sentiments exactly

We know it must be the pits if Brad's going hell nah

the hook is at least serviceable. but it's super underwritten for a five minute song. returning to the robert palmer well, now with "rootsy-bluesy" opening (almost anticipating "i can't dance") and prominent harmonica. arena boogie. clearly intended to proclaim that billy is back and this time he's ready to rock, basically the same move as "you may be right" .... what a difference a decade makes. somewhere in canada, a twenty-four year old shania twain thinks "that don't impress me much, and changes the channel.

the lyric is a bit more focused than the stuff on the last album i think, though i'm struggling to imagine margaritas as the drink of jet-setting big shots. and in general the words get lost in all the clatter. still, "mink coated ladies / argentines and kuwaitis" suggests he still has his old sense of words that will just sound interesting together, which will pay off hugely in our next track.

― gimme the beet poison, free my soul (Doctor Casino), Monday, November 20, 2017 9:22 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

somewhere in harlem, a 15 year old killa cam turns it up and says ayo mase check this out

We know it must be the pits if Brad's going hell nah

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, November 20, 2017 9:41 AM (thirty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'm not! the hook is pretty good! but as usual with billy's lesser efforts there's not much else going on

somewhere in Nashville, a 27 year old Garth Brooks turns it up and up and up

oh, we'll be getting to garth shortly...

meanwhile though i do have to share this bit from the Sirius chatter for this album, in between his fond, gross memories of the photoshoot for that sleeve: "I wanted to write a song about, uh you know, gossip columns... Henley did it with uh, 'Dirty Laundry,' and my way of doing it was, 'That's Not Her Style.'"

haha welp that makes sense, not quite as acidic or memorable as dirty laundry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqkjYKUXERQ

We Didn't Start the Fire, the lead single from Storm Front, was a worldwide smash. Billy claims the song was inspired by turning forty and learning from Sean Lennon that younger acquaintances believed that "nothing happened" during his childhood in the fifties. (I prefer my reading of it as a (somewhat garbled) attempt to argue that credit and blame for the tumult and transformation of the postwar world should be given not to the Boomers but to the graying authority-figure generations born as early as the 1860s.) Over at One Final Serenade, our attention is drawn to this short clip, which at 1:11 features Billy explaining that the song began life as a love song called "Jolene." This is one of many, many clips you can find where Joel, true to form, disparages the melody as a monotonous nothing.

Nonetheless, with the help of a memorable video, it made the Top 10 in a string of countries, and dethroned "Blame it on the Rain" to become Billy's third (and, to date, final) American #1 for two weeks in December 1989. Nominated for the Grammy for Record of the Year, along with "The End of the Innocence," "She Drives Me Crazy," and "The Living Years," it lost to "Wind Beneath My Wings." Finally, it should be said that it probably has more dedicated ILX threads than any other Billy Joel song. I for one will remember "children of the Federline" long after I'd have had any other reason to recall the existence of Kevin Federline.

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Old BJ has nothing to say here. There’s no point, no sentiment - just an arbitrary list of nouns that just barely work together sonorously. He’s not a writer, he’s a typist.

This is wrong

Not going to comment on this now, because Billy over breakfast has become a comforting ritual that I realize I am going to have to give up soon enough, but I am genuinely excited to hear people's thoughts on this one (calstars getting us off to a good start here).

i think my great love of this song stems principally from my instinctive feeling that they do work together sonorously. when all else fails, it is just incredibly fun to tumble through the syllables of this thing, and there is real craft in making the selections and the sequence i think. if you imagine scrambling the order of any verse it just doesn't work as well even when it fits the meter - somehow "davy crockett, peter pan, elvis presley, disneyland" is better than "elvis presley, disneyland, davy crockett, peter pan." it is a shame that the only way he can add variety is to switch to the INTENSE delivery for certain stanzas culminating in the stop-and-start-over moments (BELGIANS IN THE CONGOOO!). as with the last song, it'd be nice to hear a real idea for a bridge, or a memorable and creative solo, or something.

the credits on this, reflecting the period overstuffing that we already heard on "that's not her style," include two additional keyboardists, plus someone who did "sound effects and arrangements." it may be significant that these first three tracks were mixed by tom lord-alge, who'd engineered or co-produced steve winwood's big albums, and would go on to work on a million big 90s records (alt rock, pop-punk, boy bands, marilyn manson, throwing copper...).

also, i missed some other grammy noms! mick and billy were nominated for producer of the year (losing to quincy jones). this song was nominated additionally for best male pop vocal performance (it lost to michael bolton's "how am i supposed to live without you" though i must say roy orbison's "you got it" was robbed). the song of the year category duplicates the record of the year results, with "don't know much" as performed by ronstadt and neville taking the place of "she drives me crazy."

sorry guys, i’ve been neglecting this thread too much of late!!

I used to love this song as a kid. Things! A list of things! And I liked stumbling on the things that were mentioned in the song later in school or books etc.

These days I find it more maddening than anything, the RAT TAT RAT TAT TAT cadence of it & the constant intensity, there’s no respite.

I find myself wondering now about what didnt get included, or what didnt fit, etc, the editorial choices in crafting the final song

Speaking of songs that emphasize what I don't like about Billy Joel, this is probably #1. Same repetitive structure as Piano Man: about halfway through the song, I think it's the last verse, when there's like three more left to go. Chorus is instantly catchy, like an advertisement. Oh, and sports references I don't care about elevated to the level of JFK's assassination. All that said, it's not horrible but there's something about it that rubs me the wrong way, like it was calculated to be huge. and I felt that way even before my history teacher (and probably every other history teacher) turned it into an entire lesson one class

Maybe calculated isn't the right word, because this doesn't really sound like any other pop song ever

List of nouns? Well. So is "Leonid Brezhnev, Lenny Bruce and Lester Bangs, birthday party cheesecake" etc.

I hate this song but for different reasons. Mostly because we already suffocate beneath a wet fetid blanket of Boomer nostalgia; there are so many of them; they never shut up about themselves and their fucking memories; and they clearly think they invented youth and mass culture and rebellion and social justice. I never thought they started the fire so I didn't need to be told that they hadn't. This song isn't a refutation of their self-absorption; it's Exhibit 1 for the prosecution.

Oh and the annoying insanely repetitive guitar line and the frenetic percussion. And the way it has been maniacally overplayed and overexposed just rubs vinegar in the abrasion of my annoyance with it.

“List of nouns? Well. So is "Leonid Brezhnev, Lenny Bruce and Lester Bangs, birthday party cheesecake" etc.”

Hey I’m not defending REM either. But at least the chorus on that one has some pathos.

I hate this song but for different reasons. Mostly because we already suffocate beneath a wet fetid blanket of Boomer nostalgia; there are so many of them; they never shut up about themselves and their fucking memories; and they clearly think they invented youth and mass culture and rebellion and social justice. I never thought they started the fire so I didn't need to be told that they hadn't. T

While I hate this song too (it sounds ugly), I think you've misread it. The chorus acknowledges that the boomers didn't start the fire – there's a big old world beyond the 20th century, and Joel suggests he could do a "Queen Victoria Abe Lincoln/Crimean War, H.L. Mencken" for other decades.

fwiw, I played this song for my 7 year old and she LOVED it, esp the chorus which she was instantly singing along to

I don't know if We Didn't Start the Fire is good or bad but I'm glad it exists and I couldn't imagine a world in which it didn't

also speaking of REM did Billy ever cop to hearing It's the End of the World as We Know It or is it a case of both of them separately tying to rip off Subterranean Homesick Blues?

also my final thought is that everyone focuses on the verses but I'd suggest there's something about the vocal melody of the chorus that has been influential with the sort of inspirational yodelly indie that turns up in commercials a lot

inspirational yodelly indie that turns up in commercials a lot

Lumineers / Mumford?