brexit negging when yr mandate is is trash: or further chronicles of a garbage-fire

Wee Boaby in Bialystok there

chris dillow on the report: http://stumblingandmumbling.typepad.com/stumbling_and_mumbling/2017/11/the-politics-of-death.html

He didn't say "austerity is killing people", he said "she is sending disabled people to their deaths", which is true but when you're clunkily shoehorning it into an answer about something else you're not doing yourself any favours. Other people have made similar points on QT and had people applauding and cheering. And I'm saying this as someone who thinks AC is one of the Guardian's better columnists and I generally agree with him on most things.

i don't know if the point is that saying "austerity is killing people" won't change anybody's mind about the situation, but what chance have you got to convince people too fastidious to face the consequences of their political actions anyway?

Some people, like the fucker in the audience, are going to deliberately twist and misread you whatever you say and there's no point in even trying to argue or convert people, and other people are going to immediately cheer, but there's also a big chunk of people in the middle who probably don't even think that much about these issues and these are the people you need to win round. And that doesn't mean ducking or soft-soaping the issue or turning into 2015 Ed Miliband, but finger-jabbing tends to have the opposite of the desired effect.

He's a very good man and an excellent and fearless writer but not a particularly good debater.

Chakrabortty was talking in the heat of live QT, where you don't always get the chance to do a power-point presentation of your arguments, especially if you are criticising current policies. The BBC don't even seem to have acknowledged the report on their news section today. So I didn't find him "finger jabbing" at all, he got it in there, and it highlighted that people are effectively being sent to their deaths. What's the smooth + approved version of this? Fuck it I don't care tbh!

just catching up with another couple of things that were voted on last night:

- after brexit, animals will no longer be recognised as sentient beings in the UK

- parliament also rejected a proposed labour clause to retain EU environmental principles in UK law

I guess I'm referring to the ability to link it to a definably human story that people relate to - people like Dennis Skinner (and Corbyn actually) are great at that side of things, building sympathy rather than immediately sending people into defensive mode. You're right that it's not easy to do in the cut-and-thrust of a TV studio, especially when there's a Tory council rent-a-mob in there.

Public opinion towards...

Boris Johnson
Favourable: 28% (-7)
Unfavourable: 57% (+5)

Philip Hammond
Fav: 15% (+1)
Unfav: 47% (+5)

David Davis
Fav: 18% (-4)
Unfav: 40% (+5)

via @YouGov, 09 - 10 Nov
Chgs w/ September

— Britain Elects (@britainelects) November 16, 2017

Is May still outperforming them?

https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/inlineimage/2017-11-12/Favourability%20Boris%20Theresa%20Jeremy-01.png

"You're right that it's not easy to do in the cut-and-thrust of a TV studio, especially when there's a Tory council rent-a-mob in there."

If his surname was Rees-Mogg, Dimbleby would have gifted him the mic for the rest of the show like his bro did on Any Questions!

Creasy was looking directly at Chakrabortty doing the eye-roll. I already knew this but was sad enough to check it again after seeing it turned into a gif on the twitter echo-chamber.

Someone on R4 earlier seemed to posit the idea of Thatcher as an unintentional Green hero for decimating the Coal Industry and saving us the pain of having to do it now. Erm weren't we still using a lot of coal burning power stations for decades afterwards?

Iirc a lot of Brit coal was simply.replaced with dirtier imported coal from South America so get tae fuck with that line probably

"putting politics above prosperity is never a smart choice.”

davis davis, ladies and gentlemen (for that is his name)

Dirtier imported coal from South America - but, because you don't have to pay children as much to work down mines, cheap.

EU Passport with photo ID
 Non EU Passport with photo ID
 Identity Card for EU
 Residence Permit
 Permanent Residence Card
 Biometric Immigration documents
 Immigration Status Document
 UK Driving Licence with photo ID

These documents are expensive to obtain and many people do not have them.
1) What alternative ID can be provided if the claimant does not have one of the items on this list?
2) If the answer is none, what if any, financial support can a claimant obtain from the DWP to secure one of these items ion order to make a claim for Universal Credit?
3) If the answer is none, what is a claimant expected to do in order to get around this problem?
4) Has the DWP considered this issue when insisting on this requirement? If so, please provide copies of any discussion documents/equality impact assessments, etc., that address it.

We are like America now in terms of disenfranchising human beings from voting or existing because of the lack of photo ID, what an achievement.

The UK wants only high value people, if you can’t pony up for these documents then you can return to where you came from IE the dirt.

Some of us 20th century relics have never held a driving license and have no intention of getting one this late in the game. And bad luck if you don't do any international trips either. Feelings of bus wanker destitution amplified by my young niece barely into 6th form and already driving!

young people are driving less, you're ahead of the curve

Someone on R4 earlier seemed to posit the idea of Thatcher as an unintentional Green hero

Expecting more of this in years to come - Brexit good for the environment as poor people can no longer afford meat etc.

sounds more like they want to turn the countryside into a giant factory farm/slurry pit given the voting a couple of days ago on animal sentience and environmental legislation

our vegetable growing will be fucked once foreign labour dries up, it'll be huge tracts of penned cattle serviced by robots instead

this idea of the UK as an autarky that I heard Rees-Mogg talking about is nonsense. This country has barely been able to scrape past 60% food self-sufficiency since the 19th century*

*I might be a bit out there, but not far off.

dying is particularly good for the worms that keep our soil healthy

the case for a booming post-brexit soylent green industry is getting ever-stronger

When the brexiters are talking about a "green revolution" I think they are driving at a sort of reverse revolution back to Tsarist Russian serfdom, with added windfarms and solar energy.

soylent green revolution morelike amirite

cannibalism was all the rage back then, none of this processed shit!

ra-ra-rasputeeen
had no need for soylent green
just munched a serf and breakfast was done

you're right, cannibalism has a really low carbon footprint xp

let's build the cradle-to-plate culture the uk deserves

http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

hah! it seems more appropriate for these times than ever.

brexit: an immodest proposal

just realised i should have said cradle-to-table instead of cradle-to-plate upthread, mods pls fix thx

I dug the grave/plate business.

(Just saw Children of Men in the cinema again - Jesus I wish that film hadn't aged as well as it has)

i’ve been meaning to rescreen that for a while but I’ve been kinda reluctant to for fear that it would feel a little too close for comfort

cradle-to-plate is better imo *scores out item on hot-takes list*

thx to andrew and mark for their support during my crisis of confidence, i will now go back to posting only the first thing that comes into my head

the news that comes out each day defies belief. it's like they've talked to no one, arranged nothing.

that’s cuz they haven’t

have i got this right:

- soft Irish border only possible if N. Ireland remains in customs union

- maybot & DUP have explicitly ruled this out (possibly because no one has any idea how this would work)

- therefore hard border is a requirement of brexit

- but Ireland (and maybot!) has explicitly ruled this out

- ?????

- no profit as far as the eye can see

I would like to believe that, after Brexit, people in NI (you know who they are) finnaly wise up to the DUP - I wouldn't bet on it though.

isn't DUP also pro a soft border? or at least no change to current arrangements?

they have ruled out any separate arrangement to the rest of the UK. i.e. if UK's out of customs union then so are they

DUP are pro soft border but supported Brexit, they're morons.

Good for sticking a bowler hat on and marching up and down in front of Catholics but that's about it.

Though, tbf to them, they've had three hundred years of having their cake and eating it why should they think Brexit would be any different?

Did we ever get this sorted where 'this' was the source of huge donations to the DUP's Brexit campaign btw?

I have John Cleese in mind in Life Of Brian when Brian gets heckled having fallen out of the spaceship (I think) and onto one of the preaching spots.

"He's making it up as he goes along!"

David Davies' absurd dig at the French and Germans today made me think of the birds in the same sketch.

"He's having a go at the birds now"
"Oh I like the birds what's wrong with them?"
"There's nothing wrong with them. But what have the birds ever done for you?"

Sry if memory isn't 100% but it's quicker to type than to try and find a you tube link and fck the formatting up.

And it's Friday after work and I'm in the pub. Happy Friday all.