Small children would have a hard time lifting a rifle and keeping it steady enough to aim it at anything smaller than a barn door. Not to mention the recoil knocking them on their asses.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 14 November 2017 19:37 (six years ago) link
bear with me on this: let's say in a magical shake up of reality, tomorrow morning president trump comes out on tv locking arms with every member of congress and says "everyone, we are heartbroken, we are emotionally drained just like all of you after all of these tragedies for so many years and affecting so many lives, we all have kids and grandkids and can't bear for them to grow up in a world like this, and we have heard you loud and clear and we all agree it is time to take finally action, enough is enough. private gun ownership is now illegal in the us."
what happens after that?
― sleepingbag, Friday, 16 February 2018 02:06 (six years ago) link
let's find out?
― wmlynch, Friday, 16 February 2018 02:08 (six years ago) link
we'll finally know that we're living in a computer simulation
― gbx, Friday, 16 February 2018 02:08 (six years ago) link
― sleepingbag, Thursday, February 15, 201
who the fuck are you
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 16 February 2018 02:13 (six years ago) link
The same magical force that moved Trump and the Congress to unanimity on this issue magically makes all private guns disappear, fixes climate change, gives everyone perfect teeth, and brings back Jesus.
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 16 February 2018 02:15 (six years ago) link
yeah but does Jesus come back like he was at 33 and healthy or is it like Monkey’s Paw fucked up corpse Jesus
― El Tomboto, Friday, 16 February 2018 02:17 (six years ago) link
xp Alfred ??? been on this board ten + years we've interacted several times ???
or is it more like 'how dare you'?
the reason i ask is bc i was thinking about this all day. nevermind i guess.
― sleepingbag, Friday, 16 February 2018 02:17 (six years ago) link
is it more like 'how dare you'?
um, no. just that the question is so far from reality that it is a total waste of time to respond to it
― A is for (Aimless), Friday, 16 February 2018 02:19 (six years ago) link
like I keep reading ppl from other countries saying 'well after we had our one shooting 18 years ago we just banned guns and now it doesn't happen'
and i keep wondering how that would work here and why it would or wouldn't. i think the 2nd amendment is a catch 22
― sleepingbag, Friday, 16 February 2018 02:20 (six years ago) link
No wait it’s a golem Jesus made from all the guns
― El Tomboto, Friday, 16 February 2018 02:20 (six years ago) link
We're well past the point of no return re: gun ownership. Someone needs to invent a technology which remotely prevents guns from firing. Maybe we could make some headway. Until then, those of us who haven't yet been directly affected by gun violence just get to sit back and wait our turn.
― I Wanna Be A Door (Old Lunch), Friday, 16 February 2018 04:22 (six years ago) link
like I keep reading ppl from other countries saying 'well after we had our one shooting 18 years ago we just banned guns and now it doesn't happen
― startled macropod (MatthewK), Friday, 16 February 2018 04:49 (six years ago) link
Mate, you are such a fuckknuckle. Do you know we had a pretty big issue with multiple mass shootings, organised crime gangs and shitlike that as much as you guys before we banned ours? It wasnt just the Port Arthur event - that was a straw/camel situation. There was also Hoddle St Masscre. Strathfield massacre. There were something like 15 mass/spree shootings in aus in the 80s. We had and have a pretty pro gun culture here too. But it STILL WORKED.
Sure we still have crime gangs, that shoot *each other*, and suicide is still an issue, but the endless mass shootings? The sort of thing that needs ASSAULT WEAPONS to happen? All stopped.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 16 February 2018 04:54 (six years ago) link
don't call me that, 'mate', who even says that, lol. and it may shock you that my public schooling here in the us didn't really get too in depth re: the history of modern australian gun violence and its rectification. the thing that prompted me to say that was a tweet similar to this one, re: the uk
The UK's deadliest mass shooting happened in Scotland, at a school. 16 children (aged 5-6), 1 teacher, and the adult shooter died.Guns were banned within two years. It was 22 years ago, in March 1996. Since then, there's been one other mass (>2) shooting, in England in 2010.— Matt Gemmell (@mattgemmell) February 15, 2018
i do think it's pretty amazing how this chain of events took place:
21 years ago now, we banned automatic and many semiautomatic weapons, made them illegal, had a nationwide amnesty on banned weapons being turned in, and had a gun buy-back for one year, one million guns were brought in to be destroyed and it cost $500 million raised by a one-off tax levy. Nobody much minded paying. No massacres since, gun deaths fell dramatically, gun suicides fell dramatically
which is beautiful and the whole reason i bumped this thread was to ask if anything like this could ever happen in america IF political opposition was somehow a non-issue, IF somehow the constitutional right to gun ownership is completely overcome by the will of the public or if the NRA or whatever else that is in the way somehow falls aside. tall order i know, but we... legalized weed? imagining the actual logistics of removing guns from people who have them specifically in the case of government overreach... i have no idea what it was like before the ban in au or if there's anywhere else in the world where guns are even close to so completely foundational as they are here.
i'm not a gun fan, never did anything with one and don't ever want to btw. i just agonize like everyone else thinking about if and how this country i live in can actually stop this epidemic. even if they stop selling new guns tomorrow that still leaves us with more guns than people, so at some point something has to happen where we lessen that number, right? the kinds of people who are stockpliling ar-15s, are they just going to drive up to somewhere and drop them off? what is the actual interaction that takes place?
fuck
― sleepingbag, Friday, 16 February 2018 08:36 (six years ago) link
Apologies if this has already been linked to - thought this was a good piece on the likelihood of America doing the same as Australia (ie not very), and how effective or otherwise gun controls have been in Aus:
https://www.vox.com/2015/10/5/9454161/gun-violence-solution
― Ward Fowler, Friday, 16 February 2018 08:55 (six years ago) link
god, this whole subtext of "why can't we just think rationally about this???" i mean, gee, it's almost as if repeated exposure to mass violence erodes our capacity for rational thought or something
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, 16 February 2018 10:55 (six years ago) link
the NRA wing are way less rational also
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Friday, 16 February 2018 11:37 (six years ago) link
don't call me that, 'mate', who even says that, lol.
and it may shock you that my public schooling here in the us didn't really get too in depth re: ...australia
― Haribo Hancock (sic), Friday, 16 February 2018 16:27 (six years ago) link
yeah that kinda jumped out at me too
― albondigas con gas (bizarro gazzara), Friday, 16 February 2018 16:29 (six years ago) link
ANYONE who thinks tons of guns isn't an issue or that it is but we shouldn't try to do anything about it isn't thinking rationally
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 16 February 2018 17:40 (six years ago) link
my friend's school (she's a teacher) went on lockdown due to a threat today (fortunately turned out to be false alarm)
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Friday, 16 February 2018 17:44 (six years ago) link
Naive question, but is it possible that the general US public is uneasy about gun control measures, is because they worry about the consequences of angering the folks who have lots of guns?
― startled macropod (MatthewK), Friday, 16 February 2018 22:52 (six years ago) link
i thought the general US public is for gun control?
― brimstead, Friday, 16 February 2018 22:58 (six years ago) link
i think i'm more alarmed by that scenario than most people i know, so i wouldn't describe it as any sort of consensus concern. but i do think a significant number of people with guns would go absolutely ballistic (god i hate how guns permeate everything, including language, sorry) if there really was a government-sponsored campaign to take away their guns. you now have multiple generations of NRA supporters who have spent their entire lives predicting that one day the government would come to take their guns away. if and when that happens, some of them are going to act in apocalyptic ways. it's frightening.
― i remember the corned beef of my childhood (Karl Malone), Friday, 16 February 2018 22:58 (six years ago) link
― i remember the corned beef of my childhood (Karl Malone), vendredi 16 février 2018 17:58 (thirty-nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
For that situation perhaps you can check how some countries coped with the disarmament of terrorist factions/on the fence civilians ie. Ireland, ex-Yugoslav and Basque Country. However that requires for some US officials to use other countries as models which haha why would they ever they are the United States #1 USA USA.
― Van Horn Street, Friday, 16 February 2018 23:43 (six years ago) link
Yes, there are indoctrinated idiots who would destroy our country over their quite modern interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. And we should expect some more more outspoken opponents of this interpretation to become martyrs.
Gun violence is a problem that grown over generational time scales. We shouldn't expect it to resolve itself in shorter timespans. Its going to take a concerted effort from both government and media producers and consumers.
Government can close all loopholes in background checks, and institute the same fees and checks presently required for machine guns for any magazine fed rifle power semiautomatic firearm. This has no effect on hunters, or pistol owners, but does shut down the unregulated trade in assault weapons.
Media consumers can boycott tales where guns are used to resolve conflict, and the lasting, painful consequences of gun violence aren't portrayed. If you want your hero to shoot up a shopping mall, then the show has to visit the victims of his stray fire, or their families. Police procedurals must become more realistic.
Ultimately, gun collectors need to be subjected to the same sort of social derision we've applied to balding middle-agers in red sports cars. What are they compensating for? Are they really cowards? Surely 20% of the population won't share this view, but being subject to ridicule by the other 80% will take its toll.
Most spree shooters are 50 years old and younger. Maybe these alienated white males age out the spree shooter demographic, or eventually off themselves. But with decades of an effective end to the assault weapons market, with no social reinforcement of the view that guns solve problems, with a consensus that gun obsessions are as shameworthy as obsessions with child pornography (etc), we eventually shift the culture. And avoid the civil war.
― Acanthonus armatus (Sanpaku), Friday, 16 February 2018 23:57 (six years ago) link
― sleepingbag, Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:17 PM
I live in Florida. I've been living this for hours. I'm sorry.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 17 February 2018 02:03 (six years ago) link
― startled macropod (MatthewK), Friday, February 16, 2018 5:52 PM (five hours ago)
don't think so. the public broadly supports common sense gun control measures; it is the politicians who fear angering the gun nuts
― k3vin k., Saturday, 17 February 2018 04:01 (six years ago) link
I hate the term common sense gun control.
― Jeff, Saturday, 17 February 2018 15:28 (six years ago) link
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal)
i wonder if it's the same school as where i live or if there were just a lot of lockdowns yesterday
tensions get really high whenever there's a mass murder for some reason
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Saturday, 17 February 2018 15:51 (six years ago) link
We outnumber the super gun nuts by more than 95 to 1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/19/just-three-percent-of-adults-own-half-of-americas-guns/
― El Tomboto, Saturday, 17 February 2018 16:33 (six years ago) link
it is the politicians who fear angering the gun nuts
well they're always going around standing in front of cameras and microphones in public
― j., Saturday, 17 February 2018 16:53 (six years ago) link
I have a modest proposal to combat gun violence and the NRA. And it, erm, involves Muslims. :-)My new @theintercept column:https://t.co/NwsO2OKS8M pic.twitter.com/kCDVxMcICj— Mehdi Hasan (@mehdirhasan) February 17, 2018
these sorts of ideas ceased being provocative (or, apparently, effectual) not long after huey newton made these same points 50 years ago, and furthermore it's fucking reckless and stupid. so many people die from guns in this country because...there are so many guns in this country. mass shootings of the sort that make the news are a tiny fraction of overall gun deaths. encouraging more people to own guns is unlikely to cause any conservatives to change their minds on whether gun ownership should be legal, but it is certain to lead to more people dying. stop
― k3vin k., Sunday, 18 February 2018 23:35 (six years ago) link
tbf I don't think saying 'stop' has much of a track record either
― ogmor, Sunday, 18 February 2018 23:58 (six years ago) link
actually has a pretty great track record
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-JGbSrCd2o
though to be fair i'm not sure blackway and helena ever got legislation of any sort passed
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Monday, 19 February 2018 00:07 (six years ago) link
use of the phrase "a modest proposal" in any other context than the actual Jonathan Swift essay is always a guarantee that something will be terrible, there are no exceptions
― soref, Monday, 19 February 2018 00:16 (six years ago) link
can someone reboot America pls
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Monday, 19 February 2018 00:53 (six years ago) link
teens got these gun nuts shook
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 16:58 (six years ago) link
I'm willing to grant that "common sense" gun laws might not have any real effect on murder/gun violence rate (not saying I actually believe they won't), but can we just give some a try?? That's the part that maddens me. The upside is less people meeting violent deaths and all the associated mental trauma; the downside is it's slightly more difficult to obtain killing machines. How can a rational person conclude that the upside isn't worth the downside?
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 21:43 (six years ago) link
according to the research common sense laws do have an effect, the states w the strictest laws tend to have the least gun violence, but also we need to think bigger
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 22:16 (six years ago) link
we need to think about how less gun violence will put police out of jobs
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 22:53 (six years ago) link
thoughts like that
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 23:03 (six years ago) link
fire police, train them to be gun melters who turn them into cool metalworks
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 23:08 (six years ago) link
all police are sculptors now
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 23:24 (six years ago) link
What truly distinguishes the NRA is simple: it has a lot of people who are deeply involved and vote accordingly. Lobbying is just one of the NRA’s faces; it’s also a community organization that attracts people through service provision. Every year, 1 million people receive NRA firearms training. And the organization continues to expand its services. Last year it introduced a program that provides not only concealed carry training, but concealed carry insurance (covering up to a million dollars in legal costs associated with “self-defense shootings”), a hotline for incident reporting, complementary coverage for the policyholder’s spouse, and a subscription to NRA Carry Guard Magazine. What’s more, as political scientist Hahrie Han and others have noted, many of these services give members an opportunity to deepen their involvement and become leaders. Did you enjoy the firearms training you received? Well, the NRA can certify you to join the 125,000 training instructors in its network.The result of all this is that the NRA boasts 5 million dues-paying members — who fund roughly half of the organization’s $337 million annual budget — and close to 15 million Americans who identify as NRA members even if they don’t pay dues. The organization’s services and leadership opportunities coalesce into something more: a group identity that mobilizes both actual members and the millions of others who think of themselves as the kind of person who belongs to the NRA.
The result of all this is that the NRA boasts 5 million dues-paying members — who fund roughly half of the organization’s $337 million annual budget — and close to 15 million Americans who identify as NRA members even if they don’t pay dues. The organization’s services and leadership opportunities coalesce into something more: a group identity that mobilizes both actual members and the millions of others who think of themselves as the kind of person who belongs to the NRA.
https://jacobinmag.com/2018/02/national-rifle-association-members-florida-school-shooting
― Simon H., Tuesday, 20 February 2018 23:25 (six years ago) link
― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Tuesday, February 20, 2018 6:08 PM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
https://i.imgur.com/E3sCnd8.png
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 23:27 (six years ago) link
The organization’s services and leadership opportunities coalesce into something more: a group identity that mobilizes both actual members and the millions of others who think of themselves as the kind of person who belongs to the NRA.
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 20, 2018 6:25 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
members and those who have an nra sticker on their vehicle
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 23:28 (six years ago) link
was unaware they had that many dues-paying members, jesus fuck
― Simon H., Tuesday, 20 February 2018 23:32 (six years ago) link
~thread
Here are a few thoughts on the role that liberal fatalism on gun politics plays in our country's failure to stop the killing.— Alec MacGillis (@AlecMacGillis) February 17, 2018
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 23:49 (six years ago) link