Albums you own or used to own from artists that turned out to be awful people.

whenever i hear the townshend story i can't help but think of that whole "i was doing research" excuse.

― scott seward, Monday, November 13, 2017 4:34 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

As Dave Marsh put it at the time, "Yes, the cops had a right and an obligation to look into this. But that isn't what happened. They took somebody and dragged him through as much mud as they could dig up. This is basically about criminalizing investigative behavior — saying, 'You're not allowed to investigate certain things.' And any journalist who doesn't feel threatened by that is not paying attention."

i never much cared for any of his bands, but i was listening to the trap set (podcast) interview with carmine appice for a few minutes when he started talking about how he watched his band members assault a neighborhood girl (and joked about it landing him in prison these days) and then casually said he would "force himself" on girls after they said "no no no" and I almost barfed. Of course, I have heard exactly 0 other people talking about this but it really stuck with me. He was very casual about it. The part starts at 6:06 or so, and I doubt i made it 10 min into the interview before i bailed bc I do not care what this guy has to say about anything. it's possible his feet were held to the fire at some point but i didn't stick around to find out.

tarfumes, i do love that you are captain save-a-who. i love the who! i don't want to think that they were terrible people.

I haven't enjoyed Swans in the same way (or much at all) since the Grimm situation

so much musician stuff is terrible drug & alcohol stuff. i'm NOT condoning or defending behavior, but so much of it is. and being miserable. while high and drunk.

and widespread cultural acceptance of treating women like garbage

that carmine appice story is loathsome!

carmine appice of shit more like

yeah
the teaser for the ep also claimed that he had "slept with" over 4K women :(

Wow, just listened to that Carmine Appice clip. "When Mike Tyson went to prison, I thought 'we used to do that every night'".

Wrt Zep, I think I actually feel worse about how they treated Ellen Sander of Life, which I consider horrifying and indefensible, than about the Page/Maddox relationship, which is weird and gross but afaik not something she herself regards as abusive.

(I'm definitely on the side of separating the art from the artist, though.)

Morbs is OTM. Personally I'm more likely to be put off by an artist's awful history if I don't already know their music too well (Gira), making it easy to not bother investigating any further. Existing favorite artists come out unscathed. I'm strangely less affected by awful artists in music than movie directors/actors/etc. who are human garbage. Not sure what that says

yeah was gonna say Zep were terrible, Bowie I guess I've never heard anything close to Led Zeppelin behavior, but as far as the underage groupies it's hard to parse because Maddox or Pamela Des Barres or Connie Hamzy the GTOs definitely don't seem to regard themselves as victims, and always make it sound like they very much were pursuers in these relationships or one night stands, not that "it was a different time"isn't used far too often as an excuse but it was a hell of a time

she might not consider herself a victim, but Maddox certainly wasn't the "pursuer" with either Page or Bowie

phil spector is prob the worst human being whose work i love, but tbh it's not like he's actually on the records, i think of it as listening to ronnie or darlene love or whoever.

i suspect when jerry lee lewis finally kicks it (and it can't be long) the coverage of his death will be v different now than it might have been 10 years ago.

Well, Lead Belly killed someone too but that just added to the legend.

the pete townshend thing is kinda sad because i find his story p plausible, it seems to be what actually happened, and yet it's such a convoluted story that once the details have faded ppl were just left with this general idea that "hey, that pete townshend, he turned out to be pretty creepy, right?"

Eric Clapton has spent a long time shadowed by his vocal support of Enoch Powell, and Elvis Costello by his comment about Ray Charles (which he still describes as "drunken logic" in which he thought saying the worst possible thing would get him out of an awkward argument).

Lots of things can be (and have been) said about both those situations, and it's not really interesting to rehash. I still own and like many of their admirable records, but I will probably always stop short of endorsing them as admirable people. Just to be on the safe side, not because I don't think they've tried to atone.

I generally draw the line at supporting people who might be putting their money into extremist causes.

Even though I enjoy worse people than him, I completely went off seeing anything more by director Harry Kumel. He slapped one of the female stars of Daughters Of Darkness (the male star punched him for this) and I read an interview with him in which he complained about Swedish women getting fat and I disliked a lot of his opinions. I guess I just disliked him in too many ways and didn't like his film enough to want more.

And there is a writer whose work I think I might like and I'm queasy about possibly buying her work because she harrassed some other people in astonishingly shitty ways.

I once heard that Rik James brutally abused women but I don't know anything about it.

Not extreme at all for this thread, but I recently seen Ghostface Killah saying Cosby had a "pussy problem" and that men should never be ballet dancers.

I laughed about the male ballet dancers part, it's insane.

Costello's excuse is so dumb... he should have apologized instead, instead he just offered excuses. I was drunk and I wanted to annoy these other white men by offending black men. Wtf?

iirc, Costello apologized, while still stressing the “I was drunk!”excuse. And Bowie quickly made an embarrassed apology for his nazi salute.

But not only has Clapton never apologized, as late as 2004 he doubled down on his support of Enoch Powell, calling him “outrageously brave.”

i suspect when jerry lee lewis finally kicks it (and it can't be long) the coverage of his death will be v different now than it might have been 10 years ago.

Well, they already made a whole movie about how he married his 13 year old cousin.

As far as likely murdering a later wife, the Rolling Stone article I linked to above was published in 1984 and I only came across it by dumb luck earlier this year. afaik that story is completely lost to time.

Clapton might also be the only guy on the thread who said he was "into racism".

I once heard that Rik James brutally abused women but I don't know anything about it.

Dude, if you're serious, look this one up (or don't, depending on what you can stomach). A contender for the most messed-up story on this thread.

i'm not actually a fan of hers but courtney love assaulted kathleen hanna back in the 90s, and the way music writers tended to frame it as a "fight" or a "brawl" or whatever has always bugged me

wait what

http://www.mtv.com/news/506111/lollapalooza-back-biting-thurston-moore-squeals-on-courtney/

She got a one-year suspended sentence for assault for that.

Being a fucked-up, drunken mess (but intermittently smart) was always part of Courtney’s persona, so this one should hardly surprise anyone.

A lot of people seemed to go off Thurston Moore after he left Kim Gordon. Wasn't a problem for me though, as I was never into him in the first place.

well Thurston's just your common or garden slimy prick rather than an actual abuser

Re Townshend. Tommy has some pretty messed situations and the child pr0n situation put them in a different light for me. how awful a person is he? I dunno for sure, but he seems very messed up (I still enjoy his art fwiw)

Yeah, in this context, I think the bar for "awful person" is higher than "had an affair".

And there’s a viewpoint that being a customer of Sonic Youth records doesn’t make Thurston Moore’s domestic arrangements any of your business.

not a v popular one at the moment

aint that the truth

I did know a little bit about the Rik James story but I wasn't sure I could trust the site. For all these true fucked up stories there's probably a lot of myths spread by fans and haters.

Anyone know anything about the NWA stories about them beating up journalists? In one case throwing a woman down the stairs and giving her a beating? Was this the whole group? Is it a myth?

Rick James stuff was national news at the time.

NWA was Dr. Dre specifically. I had not heard of it until a couple years ago. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dee-barnes-reflects-on-traumatic-dr-dre-1991-assault-exclusive-interview_us_55f6c9c1e4b063ecbfa4c77f

music writers tended to frame it as a "fight" or a "brawl"

The underlying (and pretty sexist) assumption being that women fighting is somehow "cute." They might break a nail! Or, better yet, tear some lacy clothing. Ugh.

that also highlights the abysmal way music journalism treated women in those days

did anyone notice that headline about Thurston "squealing" on Courtney. What a narc!

the rick james thing was hardly some rumor, that's well known history at this point

Courtney punching Kathleen was well-known at the time and just emblematic of Courtney's general shittiness imo

Yeah Rick James was not a rumor, there was enough evidence that he even went to prison. Of course rich and famous people just do 2 or 3 years at prison for things that normal citizens would rot in jail for.

Yeah Rick James was not a rumor, there was enough evidence that he even went to prison. Of course rich and famous people just do 2 or 3 years at prison for things that normal citizens would rot in jail for.

― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Tuesday, November 14, 2017 8:22 AM (forty-six seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the rick james stuff was a joke to people, like part and parcel of his legend, oh that troublemaker and those women, etc. people often forgive shit by artists they like or find amusing. rick james hero worship was equal parts music and image.

I think Dave Chapelle is partly to blame for turning him
into a meme with the “I’m Rick James, bitch” and “Cocaine is a hell of a drug” catchphrases.

my fave rick james detail. he actually took the PERFECT amount of those drugs. we may never know what killed him:

"He had died from pulmonary failure and cardiac failure, associated with his various health conditions of diabetes, a stroke, pacemaker, and heart attack. His autopsy found alprazolam, diazepam, bupropion, citalopram, hydrocodone, digoxin, chlorpheniramine, methamphetamine, and cocaine in his blood. However, the coroner stated that "none of the drugs or drug combinations were found to be at levels that were life-threatening in and of themselves"."

as far as rick james and this thread go: when was the last time someone listened to a rick james album?

I gave Garden of Love a spin or two this summer.