John Ford - S/D

Ford is the one Mo walked in on... most likely with Tyrone Power! UPI, 2004:

Recalling the incident on the set of the 1955 film, "The Long Gray Line," the 83-year-old screen legend writes: "I walked into his office without knocking and could hardly believe my eyes. Ford had his arms around another man and was kissing him. I was shocked and speechless. I quickly dropped the sketches on the floor, then knelt down to pick them up ...

"They were on opposite sides of the room in a flash," she said.

Identifying the man with Ford only as "one of the most famous leading men in the picture business," O'Hara said he later approached her and asked her why she had never mentioned Ford was gay.

"I answered, 'How could I tell you something I knew nothing about?'"

If there was a bigger male hoo'er in Hollywood in that era than Tyrone Power, I'm not sure who that person would be.

that Scotty Bowers guy wd know.

If I had to vote for anything it would be Ford's segment in How The West Was Won if only for that Cinerama shot of the blood being washed off the table right at you.

I finally watched this on Blu last night; while it's borderline trivial aside from its technological significance as one of two Cinerama narrative features -- and JF's Civil War segment is only 20 minutes -- the bloody moments are shocking, including a PTSD-suffering George Peppard dashing through a red creek after a deadly encounter with Russ Tamblyn.

Also, that buffalo stampede in one of the later (Henry Hathaway) reels, wow.

http://images.static-bluray.com/reviews/624_5.jpg

Rewatched Young Mr. Lincoln yesterday, right after first viewing of The Prisoner of Shark Island (which is fine but no lost classic, though the characterization of the fairly large contingent of black men guarding the prison is fascinating).

YML might've been the first Ford movie I saw as a kid, multiple times. I enjoy the Fonda story about him being dressed down by Ford when he initially rejected the role -- "Do you think you're playing the fucking Great Emancipator? He's a goddamn jackleg lawyer!" The Criterion commentary reveals that one of Ford's fave TV shows was Perry Mason, hilarious given that Ward Bond's climactic breakdown in the courtroom could've been in any PM episode.

Also hadn't known that Alice Brady, who plays the illiterate mother of the two young men on trial, was dying of cancer during production (she looks way older than 46).

Boy do I love that movie (YML).

Tag Gallagher:

At the time of my first book, much conventional opinion (outside California) held that Ford the epitome of everything despicable: racist, sexist, militarist, chauvinist, boring. My effort was to refute such nonsense, not by debating it, but by putting forth an alternate vision of Ford as the profoundly anti-racist, anti-sexist, anti-militarist, anti-chauvinist, and the most inventive and imaginative of American moviemakers. At a time when Hollywood movies were rarely taken seriously, I said he was our greatest native-born artist.

Others joined this effort, and I believe that today we have largely succeeded.

Finally, why John Ford? Well, to paraphrase Bertolucci, because we cannot live without Ford.

http://filmint.nu/?p=25553

Saw Young Mr. Lincoln at a theater a couple weeks ago, small crowd gave a standing ovation at the end. I was surprised how riveting it was, I watched it at home less than a year ago, and it went way up in my estimation. Saw The Magician at the same theater a week later and Ford's influence on Bergman was clear, especially in the opening when they're in a horse-driven carriage in foggy woods.

Beyond these, what are the gems to see before Liberty Valance?

Stagecoach
Young Mr. Lincoln
My Darling Clementine
Fort Apache
She Wore a Yellow Ribbon
Rio Grande
The Quiet Man
The Searchers

imho,

The Iron Horse
at least one of the Will Rogers films (Judge Priest)
The Prisoner of Shark Island
How Green Was My Valley
Wagonmaster
The Sun Shines Bright
The Long Gray Line

and

3 Godfathers (or 3 Bad Men, silent)
Sergeant Rutledge

I'll second The Prisoner of Shark Island and How Green Was My Valley and add The Grapes of Wrath and Cheyenne Autumn.

of course Grapes. Cheyenne is after Liberty Valance, so i'd suggest flappy save that one.

Wagonmaster definitely.

found Cheyenne Autumn oddly inert. appreciated it simply from a historical perspective in terms of seeing actual Navajos onscreen (standing in for the Cheyenne) and speaking their own language (albeit mostly for lolz: Dialogue that is supposed to be the "Cheyenne language" is actually Navajo. This made little differences to white audiences, but for Navajo communities, the film became very popular because the Navajo actors openly were using ribald and crude language that had nothing to do with the film. For example, during the scene where the treaty is signed, the chief's solemn speech just pokes fun at the size of the colonel's penis. Academics now consider this an important moment in the development of Native Americans' identity because they are able to mock Hollywood's historical interpretation of the American West.)

And of course it looked great, but the story seemed poorly formed, Widmark is irritating, the Dodge City interlude is nonsensical, the narration is bad, etc.

also watched Stagecoach, which was great. I like my Westerns strewn with memorable character bits.

rio bravo

Hawks always said he was extremely flattered when people thought Red River was a John Ford movie.

Yeah, I've heard Hawks sing Ford's praises. Welles did, too.

flip thought i was on the john wayne thread didni

How Green Was My Valley

Welles' two favorite directors were Ford and Renoir.

so how do you all feel about Mogambo? I have it rented out, looked like an interesting outlier.
thanks for the recs also! the store has most of them, tho I haven't gotten around to any yet. bought the bargain bin HGWMV blu ray so sitting on that as well.

Mogambo is not as funny as Red Dust (orig version) bcz no Jean Harlow

it's flat

“We Cannot Live Without Ford”: An Interview with Tag Gallagher

Thank you, currently immersed in the MUBI Straub-Huillet season at present, so loved this nugget esp:

I once asked Jean-Marie Straub what “an experimental film” is. He slammed the table and declared, “The Long Gray Line! That’s an experimental film, no?”

The Iron Horse: US or UK version?

& of the list above, I only have The Iron Horse and Wagon Master left. Any others to check out before Liberty Valance?

you should be OK

i dont know of diff versions

The Iron Horse: stunning but not necessarily moving

3 Bad Men: same here, but both are enormously compelling, his composition is so perfect

Doctor Bull: my favorite of the Will Rogers pictures, genuinely very funny ("why are we staring at the cemetery? somebody get out?")

Judge Priest: very good but the DVD I watched was awful quality, need to rewatch. first "speaking to a dead loved one" scene?

Steamboat Round the Bend: underrated, the girl is great. there's an amazing moment where an angry mob of Confederate vets salute a mannequin of Robert E. Lee with utmost seriousness, feels like a classic Ford image.

The Prisoner of Shark Island: more than any other, Ford's influence on Ingmar Bergman is so clear here: shadow of Lincoln's dying face through mesh door, Mrs. Mudd revealed in the reflection of the bulletin board door condemning her husband, arrow pattern of the water as the boat draws closer to Shark Island.

The Grapes of Wrath: it's reassuring to know that "Oscar movies" haven't changed much in 80 years

How Green Was My Valley: so immersive and painterly, unlike TGOW, which is much more stark and barren

3 Godfathers: nice but overlong and not as good as 3 Bad Men

Wagon Master: more than any other film here, this one really invites multiple viewings... a distillation of running themes that is somehow more elusive than any other film here

The Sun Shines Bright: very good but the brutal racism here and in Judge Priest is really hard to get past for me, like the parade march is clearly a moving scene but watching that dude (and Rogers earlier) call black men "boy" throughout the movie makes it hard for me to get swept up

The Long Gray Line: the most bizarre discovery of this run, one of the most structurally unusual films I've ever seen, the first 90 minutes are the type of sentimental slapstick that sunk The Quiet Man for me, but once the clock really starts moving the momentum of the movie really has a powerful effect... this movie is the final shot of Fort Apache expanded into a ~135 minute movie. pretty great

Sergeant Rutledge: another outlier stylistically, it doesn't have the look of a Ford picture, feels shockingly modern. love the old ladies. Ford's preference for shooting as few takes as possible fails Woody Strode here, he's consistently compelling but there are a handful of really bad takes that sort of break the spell of his character for me

and I will watch The Fugitive before LV, only because it was one of Ford's favorites (along w/ TSSB and WM)

The Grapes of Wrath: it's reassuring to know that "Oscar movies" haven't changed much in 80 years

damn, it's not my favorite but you're so rong

it's a great movie, stylistically unique and truly evocative of a barren America, but it's a message movie with long speeches, otherwise anathema to Ford.

The Grapes of Wrath has directly been cited as one of the earliest examples of what we now know to be an "Oscar movie." (Inaccurately, I'd say; The Crowd was a best picture nominee at the first Academy Awards.)

i think Grapes is better than the book (and the Steppenwolf stage version i saw about 30 years ago)

oh it's much better than the book even though Steinbeck is too unfairly forgotten these days

The book develops quite slowly and lays a very broad foundation under the Joads' story that the movie couldn't possibly replicate. I can see where the slow pace of the book is completely out of synch with contemporary audiences, who can encompass the film much more easily, but Steinbeck's version was a whole education compared to the movie.

yes, it's a more sweeping social panorama, but such are the two media

I'm assuming Ford was more judicious about what pages he ripped out of the script of Grapes. I haven't read the book, but the movie seemed faithful to a fault to the text, but again I'm assuming he didn't really have a choice with such a major book.

another thing that struck me about Grapes was how much of it was shot on sets with backdrops - it counterintuitively makes the landscape feel so huge and empty, unlike any of the movies shot in Monument Valley where the landscape is so inviting and postcard ready. the America of Grapes is practically post-apocalyptic

the America of Grapes is practically post-apocalyptic

The Great Depression really was an apocalypse for millions of Americans. Try to get ahold of Wild Boys of the Road for an even more post-apocalyptic movie.

I know, I specifically meant the mis en scene of the movie - he really pulls it off in creative ways. very limited use of sound, too. lots of quiet wind throughout. I'll check out Wild Boys of the Road

not entirely faithful

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grapes_of_Wrath_(film)#Differences_from_the_novel

If I remember tomorrow evening I'll check out The Grapes of Wrath.

In the meantime, in the last several weeks I have seen:

1) The Informer: Drastically inferior to the 1929 Arthur Robison silent version. Between this and Hangman's House (1928) I'm convinced Expressionism was a bad influence on Ford. The opening bit with the heroine about to Sell Herself to a bowler-hatted toff for her passage to America was as risibly transparent as certain special effects conveying Gypo's thought processes.

2) Hangman's House: Are all of Ford's treatments of Irish themes this heavy-handed?

3) Bucking Broadway: Now this I liked, especially the finale (the hero and his sidekicks literally ride into a New York hotel full of dudes with Dishonest Intentions towards women, and proceeds to kick their fancy asses).

At this point, my favorite Ford film is still The Whole Town's Talking. And if you have not seen Wild Boys of the Road (Wellman, 1933), do so at your first opportunity.

I've never seen The Whole Town's Talking, or Hangman's House. I *have* seen Bucking Broadway, and that is a pip.

The Great Depression against the Dust Bowl just seems like something none of this generation is equipped to comprehend even though we're all clearly going to go through something just as bad.

and there won't be any studio films about ours

The Florida Project, as a snapshot of capitalism carried to its logical ends, is probably the closest we'll get to an American successor to The Grapes of Wrath. The works of the Dardenne Brothers also owe something to this tradition. But I cannot imagine a major American studio of today letting itself be associated with a work of this nature. For that matter I can't quite place this movie in pre-war filmmaking, even by comparison with Our Daily Bread or Man's Castle. I am assuming Joseph Breen took a firm and verbose stance on what could and couldn't make it into the movie.

What Price Glory (1952) or When Willie Comes Marching Home?

got a super cheap DVD comp of 6 of Ford's comedies & these are the only ones left

they're in my Fox box, haven't watched em

WPG is a remake