Rolling 2017 Thread on Race

Briahna Joy Gray on Coates (and identity politics in the age of Trump more broadly):

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/identity-politics-cant-get-us-out-of-the-mess-racism-made.html

Before we start arguing about this, Simon, do you agree with the piece? Or is this another one of those 'I don't necessarily agree with everything, but it raises some interesting points' kind of thing?

at this point I'm not particularly invested or interested in what messaging the Dems do or don't engage in, just thought folks here might find it interesting/worthy of discussion

Well, if you like that discussion you should check out the 98 times we've had it already. It was worthy.

Well, if you like that discussion you should check out the 98 times we've had it already.

Wait, we’ve had several dozen discussions of this Briahna Joy Gray piece already? But it was posted today

We have talked this exact argument to death multiple times; the end result is that people who want to downplay race in favor of class do not have a firm grasp of how this country has historically solved class problems (ie, by making them slightly better for white people at the expense of non-white people until those non-white people protest and mobilize legislative allies who put them at the starting point their white counterparts were in decades before them).

If you don't want to acknowledge that, feel free to continue tooting the "only class really matters" horn; I tooted it myself when we were living in a country where it wasn't patently obvious that a large segment of the country would inflict grievous harm upon themselves in order to protect the success of already-successful people who looked like them who wanted to put in place roadblocks that affect people who look like me. Watching the country's reaction to Obama's presidency was enlightening and terrifying.

DJP otm

this essay does the sort of concern-trolling abt "electability" that leftists otherwise recognize as diseased thinking among centrists https://t.co/U18IKslo8G

— 🌺JUSTIN CHARITY (@justincharity) November 13, 2017

Reading through this article, it's completely disingenuous. It holds up Coates' critique, which criticizes the rush that a bunch of white centrists, liberals, and progressives made to absolve some segment of Trump voters from racism and recommendations to downplay critique of racial issues in favor of more discussion of economic issues, as if it has no intersectional component to it and then presents as a solution the logical endpoint of the arguments Coates has been making from the get-go.

http://www.twincities.com/2017/11/29/only-i94-protester-to-go-to-trial-found-guilty-of-public-nuisance/

When Jeffrey Berger stood beside hundreds of other protesters and blocked traffic for hours on Interstate 94 following the 2016 police shooting of Philando Castile, he says he knew he was putting himself at risk for arrest or even injury.

But he doesn’t believe his actions to be criminal, he told jury members hearing his case in Ramsey County District Court this week.

“I believe it is necessary for white-skin people to take risks with their own bodies to help heal the effects of white supremacy,” Berger said.

god, what a load of bullshit. good for berger.

why did he get singled out in particular?

he's the only one who didn't take a plea deal

whyyyyyyy do i read comments on articles like that

also, iirc the local organizers used a strategy of deliberately putting forward the white allies who could weather the legal trouble relatively ok for arrest purposes

A good friend of mine who is currently living in The Netherlands posted a picture of her kids with Sinterklas and Zwarte Piet (in full-on blackface) on Facebook with the caption “You never know who you’ll run into at the Saturday market!” She is a liberal American married to a Frenchman. Several common friends of ours who are also liberals, also American, tagged her picture with likes and loves. A couple of people I don’t know questioned the blackface; all of the names I recognize are white people going “oh how precious!” aside from one common friend who liked the link I posted to the current controversy around Zwarte Piet.

There are times when I feel really, really over white people.

A woman whose profile picture is literally text that says “END IT: SHINE A LIGHT ON SLAVERY” just wrote “I don't know the history, so I am not offended. I see two men in costume being sweet to your adorable children.”

She means *white* slavery tho, maybe check your own assumptions

I’m sorry, DJP

Sorry bad quip (although the 1st part is prob true), these ppl suck obv xp

It is true that who you run into at Saturday market is an mostly unknowable thing

i was going to say the same thing, about "white" slavery and about being sorry how many oblivious fuckheads are still roaming the earth

My friend wrote “this was meant to just be a picture of the kids but I see that this is also insensitive” and I’m like “your sisters are half-Asian and your dad lives in Thailand plus you are from the US and travel everywhere, wtf were you thinking”

Her husband, who is French, basically wrote “the one time we have a story about a black man who is sweet towards kids; love you Piet” and even though he could easily kick my ass I would like to try to set him on fire 🔥

wtf at the husband's comment

jesus

who is French

btw he is a police officer who works for the United Nations

I left some context out of his comment, which was this in full:

“For one time there is a story with a black man cool, generous that everybody love. Promise if one day some people come from Mars I will change the color of my Christmas tree. I hope my children will never judge a person because of the color of his skin. Love you Piet. ❤️”

So my paraphrase was a little unfair but only a little.

Barf

calling a story with a black man cool, generous as next forks dn btw

because of the tree being insensitive to green martians???

That's how I took it, as a ridiculous ref to "oversensitivity"

what the christ

My Dutch friends hate the Zwarte Piet thing and actively campaign against it, was discussing this yesterday with a friend who lives in The Netherlands and was surprised to find that his entire otherwise liberal circle of friends think it's just a bit of harmless fun.

It’s the holiday season!

Literally 11 months out of the year, I think to myself “I would love to live in Amsterdam someday” and then in December I’m like “… oh right, I keep forgetting about that”

“I don't know the history, so I am not offended."
“I don't know the history, so I am not offended."
“I don't know the history, so I am not offended."
“I don't know the history, so I am not offended."
“I don't know the history, so I am not offended."

Laughs uproariously at joke about Chinese laundry - "Oh? You mean there's some history with that?"

I mean, God bless for not knowing about Christmas traditions of the European flat country, but being an American witnessing someone in blackface should "ring some bells," as they say during the holidays.

'but it's not black it's zwarte'

Addendum: A Dutch(-American) woman showed up to complain about the NatGeo article I linked, likening it to a man writing about problems within the feminist movement since it was written by an American. She also wrote a giant post comparing Zwarte Piet to the Easter Bunny and blathering about the importance of tradition. At least one of my white "friends" liked her comment.

Facebook is clearly a great invention

Haven’t regretted deleting it for a single second.

As part of her comments, she referenced the author of the NatGeo piece as "a literal Becky", appropriating from a black person to complain about black people objecting to something they perceive to be racist.

This article, I assume?

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/12/black-pete-christmas-zwarte-piet-dutch/

Holy fucking shit that woman is a stupid troll

Also this could go in the black, white, purple thread:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/08/29/world/europe/zwarte-piet-netherlands-united-nations.html

The Dutch are already reinventing the way they portray the controversial character, said Lodewijk Asscher, minister for social affairs and employment. “At the school of my own children, the Petes last year were orange,” he said.

yup, yup, and yup

I might give her viewpoint more credence if we weren't talking about the country whose colonial adventures gave us apartheid.

a man writing about problems within the feminist movement

i am going to meditate on that and try and figure out how it maps onto brave dutch piet-lovers

don’t forget the Easter bunny