KIDEODROME: scary "Kid's Youtube" algorithms, fringe programming, insert conspiracy theory here

I see from that dutch article that Pobosiec is pushing this on twitter, thus tying it back to the alt-right discussion.

Those Bad Baby live action ones, which I think are Russian, are very strange and silly. I don't know if they would seem as weird to Russians or not.

This has really consumed my thoughts and bummed me out for a few days. I think we've spent the last 10 years of internet completely dominated by the twin ideologies of "the free market is good" and "tech means innovation." Both of which, as it turned out, are patently untrue.

I really see this as an economic/capitalism issue more than anything. Imagine being a poor single parent exhausted from working two jobs or, even worse, having to bring your kid to your night job because no one can watch them. No one with a shred of empathy would blame that person for wanting to hand their phone to their kid and say "please keep yourself occupied." The problem is that owning, say, a digital copy of a season of Peppa Pig is like $12.99 on iTunes or Google Play. Or Sesame Street costs $14.99 or whatever a month to stream on HBO. A Disney Movie is whatever, $12.99 HD or something. The easiest thing to do is end up on YouTube where users upload versions of these things for free. Jobs are paying less, people are struggling more and there's decreasing incentive for someone on a small income to actually do these things through the legal channels.

Now, for the middle and upper classes I think it's more a culture of tech snobbishness that reminds me of the FAG BUYS MUSIC cartoon circulating a few years ago when this was mostly a music problem.

And the fact that YouTube/Google not only ENCOURAGES this, but PROFITS off it, is a disgusting failure. It reminds me of Uber or something where they just broke the fucking law until it became part of society and then everyone just throws up their hands and says "what can you do." This entire thing is a product of the free market, but we're all a little complicit. It's all very saddening and just once more proof that we live in a disgusting dystopia where white libertarian tech bros are going to start dictating government policy in about 10 years if not sooner

wow @ that Dutch article, y'all weren't kidding about some of that

what exactly is the point of all this? does this sort of content do better with Youtube's algorithms or do they think that kids will seek that out, much like a 12-year old peeking at rotten.com ? or is there something more nefarious there? this seems like a different phenomenon than the AI-generated Animals for Kids videos

xpost to me

And, you know, it takes beaming uncanny valley violence into the brains of unsuspecting children for everyone to see that the last decade of the economy has been leading up to this, and we've all been living this on a macro level in ways we didn't really notice. "You know, Fox turned into a hardcore sex channel so gradually, I didn't even notice"

xp from the alt-right thread:

want to rescind my earlier comments about how this is more market failure than child abuse. I've seen some more Animals For Kids videos that can only be described as intentionally created to harm young children. the sections with guns. these people aren't getting a Nickelodeon show, hopefully they'll be exposed and held to account.

evidently on youtube kids until recently, millions of hits. profoundly upsetting. there's a very, very good reason Bridle didn't link. I'd unwatch if I could.

― Milton Parker, Tuesday, November 7, 2017 6:09 PM

we have friends who work at home and they don't really engage w/their six yr old much, they hand her an iPad and let her go to town. when i bring our kid over for a play date, she always wants to watch something on the iPad. at dinner she wants to prop the iPad up and watch something. we went over there another time and she was crying inconsolably for an hour bc she wasn't allowed to use the iPad before we arrived. she's learned to buy apps on the iPad. our kid gets bored there now because he wants to play, and she just wants to watch the iPad. she watches a million unboxing videos too.

:(

As somebody who was freaked out by the opening credits of Wall Street Week as a kid, just thinking about what I would have turned into with a steady diet of this pure incoherence is terrifying

I don't really want to live in a world where this is unregulated and we just let the algos do their thing. How the people who produce this and the people who enable it can sleep at night, I can't imagine

I'm sure most of the people who work at YouTube and Google sleep just fine

Basically, never allow your kids access to any part of the internet featuring any content created/uploaded by the general public, I guess?

I mean it's pretty well established that the anonymity of the internet allows people to be unfiltered id monsters.

I'm surprised by my visceral reaction too. Part of me wonders if it's overblown. If I was a teen, finding masses of bad-trip nonsense videos would have been hilarious. Now that I'm older I can't really be sanguine about it. It makes me despair that we've decided that if you can make money manipulating a system we depend on for more and more things in life, everything's ok. At some point you have to seize the reins, regulate, and stop people doing what is the equivalent of dumping dioxin into water mains

When I was 7 or 8, my mom cancelled pay cable after she saw me watching hair metal videos and Children of the Corn ... the thing that I saw that was the most disturbing was a documentary on Nostradamus' prophecies that was on PBS or something though. ... I think this thing is creepy like Halloween 3 (as mentioned upthread), but I don't see any real difference from unsupervised tv watching that was a touchstone of the Gen X latchkey kid era.

Idk - I wonder if there have been scientific studies done on children to see whether seeing this stuff has real developmental consequences, or whether this is mostly a case of parents instinctively wanting to protect kids from bad things.

i think part of the issue here is that the target audience is in the 1-4 range, not 7-8, also see Milton's post above re: content

never allow your kids access to any part of the internet featuring any content created/uploaded by the general public, I guess?

p much. I have no problem w this.

I wonder if there have been scientific studies done on children to see whether seeing this stuff has real developmental consequences

too soon to know, I'd assume?

I wonder if there have been scientific studies done on children to see whether seeing this stuff has real developmental consequences,

there hasn't been enough time to do this kind of thing, the internet's moved to fast and the kids haven't grown up yet

Yeah it's the age of kids that this stuff is aimed at that's all the more unsettling

I barely remember anything from when I was that young. I would say ages 7-8 would be more disturbing.

i can recall a lot of garbage, low quality animation & kids programming from when i was a child, but this seems like a new thing - to make these recombinative videos with intentionally harmful images. I haven't brought myself to watch any of them because the Medium article was unnerving enough.

I'm certain that stuff at those early ages is more developmentally crucial than anything subsequent tbh

but would they register as such to an infant?

honestly, if the concern is about their development, they should be reading and drawing and engaging in physical activities rather than watching inane youtube videos.

I would say ages 7-8 would be more disturbing.

Yeah, I remember the video store's posted for Child's Play scaring the shit out of me as a kid, to the extent that I'd never face that section of the store.

Agree that parenting-by-youtube is the issue here, over that of the actual content

they should be reading and drawing and engaging in physical activities rather than watching inane youtube videos.

see Whiney's post above about how that option is increasingly tied to class/income

bull fucking shit that reading, drawing or outside play are more expensive than a fucking ipad

read the fucking post

income, not really. the cost of the data plan to accommodate that isn't cheap -- compared to checking things out from the public library. Class = yes, unfortunately.

yeah "don't let your kids watch TV or YouTube" sounds good until you have a 2nd one

Whiney OTM

Experiences like these make me never want to deal with 'platforms' that exist to sell ads. (I'm on Mastodon, Fastmail for email, won't use Uber, etc. Twitter I can't seem to pry myself off) Which reminds me .. I have never given a dime to ILX. I'm ashamed that I've never asked if there was a mechanism. Is there?

Agree that parenting-by-youtube is the issue here, over that of the actual content

xp yes, but you missed it this time around and it was fully funded, it's historically been difficult to contribute before the fundraising targets are reached

The world is shit, and people are horrible -- the issue is how long do you wait until a child is forced to find this out.

yeah "don't let your kids watch TV or YouTube" sounds good until you have a 2nd one

I have two kids. My 4yo son watches (exclusively, and under the supervision of either me or my wife) National Geographic animal videos in cases of emergency (ie he needs to be pacified while we're at a doctor's appointment or some shit like that). My 9yo daughter does not have access to youtube.

Agree that parenting-by-youtube is the issue here, over that of the actual content

Have you seen the actual content?

i would not be at all surprised if corey pein's conspiracy theory (that the usual chanoid suspects are creating and seeding these kid-torturing videos to humiliate youtube's management) turned out to be substantially true

the issue is how long do you wait until a child is forced to find this out.

afaict the answer is until they are old enough to navigate the world on their own ie, once my daughter is old enough to go/be somewhere by herself (ie without the supervision of myself or another adult) then she is going to need a phone, and after that all bets are off. Currently my estimation is that this tends to be around the age of 10-11.

xp

they always start the fundraising drive during UK hours for a start :P

yeah, you can do both, obviously! but just plugging a child in and letting the videos play strikes me as extremely problematic. at that age, parents should guide their children through the internet imo - independence can wait until their defences have formed, surely

the actual content here is clearly awful in a lot of ways but there's a clear risk when kids are left to wander youtube unsupervised - for me that's the most hazardous aspect of this

I watched some old Goofy cartoons w my son in the parking lot on Sunday while we were waiting for my wife, I guess. Not something I would ever let him do himself, no way am I just handing him my phone.

xp

and by kids I mean toddlers, the very young

and yea I can absolutely see how this stuff can be harmful to children, even if they won't necessarily remember it. my older one is nearly 3 and it's kind of incredible how much of a blank slate he is

he really likes this old Claymation show called "Mio Mao" and in most episodes there is some form of cartoonish violence. he thinks it's hilarious but he'll say things like "Daddy...is Red hitting???" ("Red" is one of the characters), and he knows that hitting is wrong and will get him a time out. I can only imagine what having him watch videos where characters are throwing giant syringes into other characters and making them cry would do to him.

The thing I’m most terrified of my kid seeing is Veggie Tales. Now that’s some toxic shit.

the idea of lazily or procedurally generated video going seriously off the rails is easy to understand (remember how much fun we had in that idakoos thread?? "proud mom of a branch davidian -- and i vote!" etc) but also provides a fertile ground for plausibly deniable purposeful sadism

xp thanks sleeve - I'll keep my eyes out for the next opportunity, appreciate the info

yea I mean the shitty thing about this is not necessarily that it *exists* but that it's aimed solely at gaming the YouTube algorithm and getting "discovered" by kids who just want to watch superhero videos. it's not like the "KEEP CALM AND RAPE A LOT" shirt that was just an algorithm gone bad and probably never actually existed in any physical form

"KEEP CALM AND RAPE A LOT" shirt that was just an algorithm gone bad and probably never actually existed in any physical form

damn, there goes one of my holiday gift ideas.

It's really surprising that youtube kids isn't completely curated. If an uploader with an approved video changes the file in any way, it simply gets dropped. I'm sure Google can employ 100 people to watch and approve enough content to last kids essentially forever.

https://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/psychiatrists-report-mass-outbreak-of-sociogenic-illness-spread-via-social-media-videos/

Yeah, it's interesting, I've seen some Twitter chat about it - you can download the actual paper here https://academic.oup.com/brain/advance-article/doi/10.1093/brain/awab316/6356504

So let's talk about Skibidi Toilet. Anyone else have kids heavily into this?

My kid is almost 18 now so no, but I had to look this up

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skibidi_Toilet

why is the internet filled with dumb shit like this, I do not know. this stuff is obv intentionaly being made by an actual person unlike some of the things above which appeared to have been randomly generated nonsense, which is almost worse.

I don't have kids but I've watched a few Skibidi Toilet videos. It's funny! Completely juvenile, pointless and random, yes, but sometimes you can allow yourself to enjoy a puerile absurdity. I definitely get why kids like it.

I am not anti-Skibidi Toilet per se, enjoyed the absurdity of the first 10 or so videos, just lost interest when it stopped being funny and started building lore. Kids are more into it than ever but I have no idea what is going on now.

actually this is a pretty good thread for this work of bona fide genius which i've been hitherto unable to find an ilx home for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci3f_BqQk-A

I am just assuming it will go the way of Baby Shark and Johnny Johnny Yes Papa.

Hadn't heard of this before but watching a few videos I can totally see the appeal of this

Yeah, it's like Usavich for a new generation. The absurdity of the concept aside, it's downright explicable compared to a lot of the newfangled cultural obsessions that baffle my aging brain.

I don't find it especially baffling - just a continuation of "weird internet stuff" that's been going on for ages now

Whereas I recently stumbled upon a random Roblox video and it pretty much fried my cortex

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ydd9Z4p8mM

Nope, not a clue

Kids ask me for Skibidi Toilet stuff at my job everyday, it's... weird

Kids ask me for Skibidi Toilet stuff at my job everyday, it's... weird

Work at the Kideo shop

When my kids started talking about Skibidi Toilet, I thought it was a callback to this video I kept showing them when they were far too young for it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDFBTdToRmw

first thing I thought of too! it made me rewatch it and now I love it even more so c'mon "Skibidi Toilet" is not all bad