Depression and what it's really like

I don't know about you ogmor or the rest of our thread readers but one of the constant pressures or anguishes in my life is a very real sense that I'm only ever one or two bad decisions or periods of knackeredness/despair away from homelessness and an inescapable downward drop

NV - know that feeling 100%

uh no sleep no wake days of it

to ogmor and uu-g, if this is the only place you feel like you can vent, and it feels safe to do so, by all means do it. it's de facto therapeutic, and maybe you'll get constructive crit or advice.

Oh really? Well “go fuck yourself” is a directive. https://t.co/7W9WOSdnsT

— Andy Richter (@AndyRichter) November 17, 2017

<3

I don't know about you ogmor or the rest of our thread readers but one of the constant pressures or anguishes in my life is a very real sense that I'm only ever one or two bad decisions or periods of knackeredness/despair away from homelessness and an inescapable downward drop

― Pope Urban the Legend (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, November 1, 2017 2:36 AM (two weeks ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yes yes yes yes yes i know this feeling all too well.

it's relating to my.. dunning-kruger phobia maybe.. any feelings of competence i have are tempered by "i should not feel confident" + fear of "not knowing what i don't know" if that makes sense (probably not). it really sucks!

had a good session with my therapist yesterday, ended up thinking about how much of my inner self-critical voice is really my dad still working away in there. she pointed out that every time she said something positive about me i found a way of countering it with a list of failings.

then i went to the pub and drank myself into one of the worst hangovers i think i've ever had.

hmmmm.

every time she said something positive about me i found a way of countering it with a list of failings

I'm a fucking expert at this. Hey! There is something I'm good at!

I'm going to see a therapist on Wednesday. Good luck NV (and everyone)

she pointed out that every time she said something positive about me i found a way of countering it with a list of failings

this is exactly what i talked with my therapist about yesterday - i imagine we all on this thread are our own worst critics

Heh maybe that's how I can be sure I'm not depressed, dozens of other people are my own worst critics

Strength to all itt

I have the same problem... I think the root of it is that i don't believe that I deserve to be happy

xpsts

somebody I went to uni with is now a newsreader. It's not a job I want or a life I want to live but it was jarring to have the TV on in the background and see this guy, who in all honesty I thought was very nice but also very unintelligent in a basic-conversation-comprehension way, acheiving a level of success that I don't ever possible for myself. Some people live in nice villages in a nuclear family and go travelling round Asia and receive cars as gifts, and some people spend their twenties in a depressed rot accomplishing nothing dealing with the trauma of their teens. The language of job-hunting, "are you up to the challenge?" no, I'm not, I've used all my energy fighting everything else.

It's not one thing after another, it's one thing on top of another, and it set me over the edge into a sleepless night of pathetic envy and self-doubt followed by tears at work and an afternoon sent home. Jealousy is a normal human emotion but I don't feel like I can handle it at all. I look around and I see people with careers, homes, families, easy happiness, and I look at my own life and wonder, why not me. The fear is that I'm only ever one bad episode away from ruining what I have in my life.

i don't have any advice, i'm sorry. i've been in my own tail spin for a while now. but i definitely sympathize with a lot of what you wrote. also i like the way that you write, the little "are you up to the challenge?" snippet just jumps out and grabs my throat, brings me right back. i mean that in a good way! it's very evocative and emotional just to read.

hang in there.

Boxedjoy - <3

funnbun
1 month ago
Any tips on passing depression?

I can totally empathise with this boxedjoy. If there's anything I've learnt it's that smartness/cleverness/switched-on-ness does not necessarily = success and riches. In fact it often feels the other way around. I'm now doing a job I quite enjoy but I know that I'm on the lowest run of the ladder here, even in my mid-late thirties, and the higher earners here aren't exactly geniuses - they've either been in the right place at the right time or they're a lot better at bragging about the few things they are good at. It's so easy to be jealous, but then I think: 'Would I really want their life?', maybe parts of it, 'Do I really?' nah, you keep it and enjoy it

when the truth is found
to be lies
and all the joy
within you
dies

It's not one thing after another, it's one thing on top of another,

i feel this. also numerous things tangled with other things in Gordian knots

<3 everybody

yeah that was a good post boxedjoy, i can relate.

finding it helpful to employ a "knowing when to care/not care" attitude to the problems in my life. Like the bully at my work, it's their deal - and not mine, so I just go on and do my best and not let it get me down. For years I've been sensitive to the point of paralysis, just now trying to find ways to not give a shit about the things that really don't matter and (at the risk of sounding cliche') go out into a forest during a wind storm to be reminded what's real. but yeah "it's one thing on top of another" is OTM

best wishes to everyone

I've typed and deleted some variation on this post a half dozen times now, but: as indefensible as it feels for me to stick my head in the sand, I feel like I need to stop paying attention to what's happening in the world. Too many things are hitting some surreal, ott level of horrifying that I'm not sure I (or maybe even people in general) am equipped to handle. Like to the extent that I cannot reconcile what's happening in the world with any conception of the world that I have in my head, and it's making me feel not just that the world is meaningless but that any attempt at building a subjectively meaningful life is a pointless pursuit because the bad guys will just keep winning and everything will get gradually worse throughout whatever time I have left to experience consciousness and the best I can hope for is that one of these psychopaths with possession of a nuke will just bring the whole thing crashing down before I have a chance to realize what's happened. I've given up altogether on the idea of ever bringing kids into this world, I'm not planning for anything resembling the long term, and I just try to be thankful when I've gotten through another day because I feel like I'm going to live to see a time when getting through another day will be much more worthy of note than it is currently.

Fuck. Sorry.

That’s very defensible.

don't apologize. i'm biased because i've had a lot of the same thoughts recently. i used to put a lot of stock into "the future" and what i should be trying to do, but for the 6 months+ there's been this dissipation into thinking that the future isn't really a thing that can be counted on, at all.

it's definitely not a good feeling and i'm not saying that the fact it feels like a natural way to react necessarily means it shouldn't be actively resisted, at a personal level. but at any rate, definitely don't apologize.

In the midst of the Pacific War during WWII, US soldiers and sailors took heart in decrying the stupidity that complicated an otherwise bloody and terrifying war, by coining such useful terms as snafu (Situation Normal: All Fucked Up), fubar (Fucked Up Beyond All Recognition), and illegitimi non carborundum. The key was sharing the same boat with a bunch of others who freely and openly acknowledged the stupidity, futility, blood and terror of the situation and the impossibility of fixing it, and bonding in kinship in the face of an overwhelming and heartless mess.

I think that you, Old Lunch, have exactly the right kind of heart to share this mess with. So please, don't lose heart. You'd be robbing the rest of us of your humor; however black and ugly it feels to you, it is worth plenty to me.

^

feel the sudden urge to re-read some catch 22

aimless OTM

i have been unable to move for about 4 days. not quite literally. i make it out of the house a couple times a day to walk my dog, and yesterday i managed to pick up ingredients to make chili (mainly so that i could make way too much and have leftovers for dinner the past few nights). i have things i could be working on! i have something fun that i'm supposed to be working on, in fact! but i just can't do anything at all right now. i seriously need to be dropped off by helicopter in the middle of the tundra, 40+ miles from the nearest road, and forced to either move around or die out there. either that or the floor could drop out from underneath my couch, dumping me and my dog and my laptop and the cat claw-shredded upholstery down into a huge tank of freezing water. i wouldn't even be mad! when my partner is around i manage to keep myself from entering perma-slouch mode on the couch and can feint the movements and actions of someone who is technically a human being. but left to my own devices for a few days, i quickly settle back into my natural state. waking up has been the worst the last few days. just waves of self-hatred, as soon as the eyes open up.

/oof

i feel it

the only thing that makes me feel better is accomplishing something at work and that is why i suffer workaholism so i had to talk myself out of going to the office today (i will go tomorrow) but how do i get myself as addicted to cleaning my house as i am to working. i drank 3 large cups of coffee and i am on my bed reading about taxes and finance which is really good for me. overdosing on thoughts.

my cat also shredded the couch a long time ago so i am ashamed of that too

on the bright side, i have managed to sink 25-30 hours into Skyrim in the last handful of days. i am doing really well in that world and some of the NPCs are beginning to greet me by reputation. i'm a pretty big deal there, even though (maybe because?) i am a giant cat man

xpost

i drank 3 large cups of coffee and i am on my bed reading about taxes and finance which is really good for me. overdosing on thoughts.

i love feeling like that! my new short-to-intermediate-term goal is to feel like that again

good to know i'm doing better than someone then, i guess? :(

haha, sorry. i'm just being incredibly negative recently. when i walk outside i feel like a toxic ooze flowing down the edge of the sidewalk. bluuurrrggh.

i wish i had some of your workaholism! if workaholism could somehow be bundled up and sold as a potion that lasted a day, i wonder how much it would go for. $100 to be motivated to work your ass off for 24 hours?

warm thoughts to both of you, i laid on the couch so much at the start of the month that when i finally had to go out of the house i could hardly walk.

got a little bit better since then. i've been back at work for a fortnight and that's keeping me a little less lumpen, but i don't do much round the house once i'm home. baby steps tho, baby steps.

you don't normally think of it, but the walking and standing muscles can actually atrophy just like any others

'specially as i get older

if it was a potion that lasted one day it would be ok. i don't think i could sell a potion that caused working until you get a headache every day but having no more done than if you had worked for 5 hours and went home, just because the hyperfocus perfectionist dopamine rush + dread of going home kept you from wanting to leave? take it to the adhd thread i guess. i'm going to get off my bottom and clean something so i can feel hopeless about that too

cleaning with headphones is sometimes fun, depending on what kind of cleaning is being done. cleaning the shower/tub + anything is usually awful, but cleaning mirrors with windex + anything is worth it.

I live part of each week in anxiety world, not depression world but I thought I'd check in, we have some of the same unpleasant headguests I believe? though my anxiety demon lives mainly in my stomach not my head.

Learning to code is something that helped to some degree with my anxiety. I felt an underlying sense that my anxiety was linked to feelings of lack of control and autonomy of my future. Learning to code has been therapeutic but also gives the illusion of shaping some kind of future with more control (its become an actuality over time, still on the journey though). its not without its problems, it can bring its own anxieties (argh why can't I do it), but one really good thing its done for me, is the feeling of conquering something.

its maybe more for the anxiety people than the depression people but idk its something thats helped me to some extent

that's a timely comment, i've been giving python a second shot this past week or two and i'm enjoying it quite a bit this time around. and yeah, working on it gives me little sporadic doses of accomplishment, which is nice. the main difficulty has been in keeping myself from getting distracted. i'll be working on chapter 8 in an online book and then think "i wonder if there's a reddit thread on this book somewhere. wouldn't this be the best time to check, while i'm actually immersed in the book itself?"...flash forward 2 hours and i'm just totally lost in the internet wilderness, totally forgot that python ever existed.

Cherry - totally get the coding thing and think anxiety is tied into depression, certainly anxiety leads to some burn out as well.

I've noticed lately I have to go outside or do something when anxiety sets in, otherwise I just freeze. Freezing is the worst because it feels like literally nothing can be done to get out of that; which is obviously bullshit.

Partially why I drink daily (not overly) is to soothe anxiety I think, but I feel at my best at work honing in on a task or working on music at home.

Anyways shout out to Karl

XP Fuck yes otm to that. Don't think I've focused for more than two minutes on anything in three years or more

Cherry - totally get the coding thing and think anxiety is tied into depression, certainly anxiety leads to some burn out as well.

It might be semantics but i think its stress that leads to burn out! Stress is linked to things, anxiety is kind of more abstract, unconnected. I think stress is a good thing, in small or manageable doses, because you get the feeling of conquering it after the obstacle is removed. Ive realized for me at least anxiety is what happens when you avoid all stressful things. Then it builds up in the background, the nagging worries that are have now become disconnected and have a life of their own, and cant be pinned down to vanquish. I think we need to feel bad things that are real and then overcome them otherwise they appear on their own terms, down the line

Freezing is the worst because it feels like literally nothing can be done to get out of that; which is obviously bullshit.

One of the things thats helped me - is actually helping someone else. My friend is learning to code and i have basically become her full time mentor. She has anxiety issues as well, and i can see when she gets overwhelmed by it (she disappears), keeping her on the straight and narrow has been good for me too

i'll be working on chapter 8 in an online book

I have lots of advice around this (I started out with a huge python book, i never got past page 5).

Are you building things? Online courses and books and stuff have their place, and different methods work for different people. But whats worked best for me is building things. The problems that come up are organic, and the solutions organic too - learning how to learn, sifting through google or stackoverflow or github. the conquering of problems is more satisfying and also you start to have things you can show people.

Also it holds your attention longer than completing abstract and unconnected exercises, you have a connection to what you've put together

I'm in javascript world now, not python. the thing im working on now is something that shows flows of refugees across the world from country to country on a map. I have no idea how to do this - yet!

You know, i put this on the thread for the anxiety people but maybe the depression people could get some benefit out of it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9golHCCdg4

its the story of an english guy who became a drug king pin in arizona then spent 6 years in Supermax, and is now back in the UK. I dont watch many podcasts but this is the best I've watched for a bunch of reasons. Recommend highly

i've been giving python a second shot this past week or two

Oh, also, i recommend joining slack and finding some public slack python groups, people doing the same thing as you. the community is probably good (i am in some for ReactJS) and having people in same situation as you is much better for state of mind than by self (and i say this as someone who is very much a go in the woods alone type person)

Are you building things?

i'm trying to build a sensor-driven multi-channel video installation for a show next spring. i got really motivated earlier this year (documented here) and taught myself beginners python (and raspberry pi and linux, all of which was new to me so a bit of a slog) and got most of the way there with a prototype: i had it so that it would seamlessly loop between randomized pools of video clips, endlessly. one time i even let it loop overnight, to make sure it would work for several hours straight. i admit that i celebrated a bit. this was like the textbook mini-accomplishment milestone that you were talking about.

but then, disaster struck. for some reason, the video began freezing and crashing after a weirdly specific number of loops - i think it was either 61 or 43...something prime. anyway, the same exact piece of python code that worked for many hours straight now crashed, every single time. it was maddening. i tried to work back through my iterations of code to a stable version, but every step backward led to new complications and things that didn't happen before. i know it sounds like baloney but it happened.

i decided to take a little "breather" from python and then 7 months went by and i suddenly remembered that i have to build this fucking thing and i was *this* close to getting a working prototype going way back in april. so now i'm back on the saddle

anyway my other near-to-midterm goal is to keep going and then revive that raspberry pi with my progress. i'm trying to rewrite the entire thing, this time with a slightly better grasp on python.

revive that raspberry pi ^thread^ with my progress