THE DEUCE with David Simon, George Pelecanos, James Franco AND James Franco

I think Jordan is right and the Vulture recap has it wrong.

I really think it's the former!

xp

I've not seen beyond ep 1 of this, but am shocked that there is any ambiguity at all in a David Simon series.

that's just silly

If I couldn't finish Treme or Show Me A Hero, would I get much out of this?

I think it's much more engaging and more Wire-like than Treme (which I only stuck with out of familiarity with the subject matter). Didn't see SMAH.

SMAH did nothing for me tbh

so, this is actually really good

I esp appreciate that for a show about fucking/prostitution/pornography, the nudity and sex is never titillating. Everything is grimy and kinda gross, occasionally scary.

mostly enjoying the cast, Franco is serviceable (getting serious Matt Dillon vibes from Bad Franco), Gyllenhaal is great, the guy who runs the porn store is *perfect*, Jackie Aprile redux is good.

and I haven't gotten to the terrible-sounding scene referenced upthread yet, but in general I am really enjoying how music is used in this - I am blanking on the film term for when all the music heard is what characters are listening to, but I dig that a lot. Cutting between two scenes where two different sets of characters are listening to the same thing on the radio, but not in an obtrusive or showy way. Or Franco laughing at himself dancing to "Mr. Big Stuff" on the jukebox. This show is a slow burn, and grim and committed to the visual and unrelenting ugliness of the area, but I am into it so far.

diagetic

ah! yes ty

this is my new favorite show

(Starcade is my new old favorite show)

The "Pale Blue Eyes" on the radio scene turned out to be an oddly a rare misstep. the cast in this is so good, and Franco delivers the lolz at least once an episode, like when the guy is sketching out the porno-booths and Rudy the Gangster takes one look and says "oh yeah, I get it" and then Franco adds "so they can jerk off!" classic. Method Man also surprisingly good, his extended dialogue trying to pickup Gyllenhaal on the street was so good.

Franco-as-Vinnie reminds me of Daniel Desario at times (his character on Freaks and Geeks eighteen years ago, for any of you lucky enough to have your first viewing of that wonderful show still in your future).

Wait, sorry, I meant Franco as Frankie, the irresponsible one.

speaking of Freaks and Geeks alum I was just marveling at Neil's older brother's transformation into porno-director-schlub, he is so good in this

he looks like he's had a rough 18 years lol

Krumholtz is an undervalued (or poorly served) actor

he is great in this, yeah

Christ u r right, he's been in a lot of crap

really thought this was great

man even the season finale was comparatively low-key. I'm starting to realize which plotlines I find engaging (Candy's, primarily, and the gangster racket) and the ones I don't care about at all (the pimps). Franco's storylines aren't all that engaging but he is v fun to watch so he makes up for it. The cop/journalist story is okay but it seems kind of obvious where it's going.

I definitely do not ever need to see another season-ending montage of all the characters set to an iconic piece of music, that shit is so lazy at this point.

old man yelling at the clouds: wtf is curtis cranked so fucking LOUD in the theme song? it's like 3x the volume of the rest of the show! i'm already watching it, so i don't know understand why it's trying to grab my attention so hard

haha yeah I noticed that too. Great song and all but...

the pimp storylines are so weird in tone - like, am I really supposed to care about the existential struggles of some of the worst people alive? like, oh no suddenly they feel unnecessary, what are they going to do?! and, why, this other pimp, he has *feelings*! How ever will they grow and evolve? Method Man at least knows to keep it alternately funny or scary... but idgaf about any of them, they could all be murdered like Reggie Love and my reaction would be "huh, well that was well-deserved".

fwiw the second season is meant to be set five years later

so we might not see any direct resolution to a lot of the stories set up this season

whoah waht?!

I liked that this season all basically led up to the release of Deep Throat, skipping ahead to '76 is an interesting decision

David Simon has a three-season plan for this series. Is that something you’re game for?

FRANCO: Of course! I had to be, signing on. One of the interesting things about this show is that it’s a hybrid between a limited series and a regular series. There are only eight episodes a season, and if we go, which it looks like we will, there will only be three seasons. It gives it this perfectly encapsulated, very concise, economical power punch feeling to it. From the beginning, the plan was to cover 14 years. The first season is ‘71-‘72, and the dawn of pornography. The second season is ‘77, ‘78 and ‘79, or somewhere in there. And then, the third season will be ‘84-‘85 when everything imploded and the old 42nd Street was shut down by Mayor Koch. I think if we pull it off, it will be a really nice encapsulation of a time and a place.

late 70s is kind of the "golden era" of pretentious feature-length porn films. (No idea what that means in terms of 42nd St in particular)

Wow, I had no idea about the three season plan! Fantastic. I love this idea.

This was great! I'm wondering if Simon needs a good collaborator to make a good (mini-)series (Ed Burns, Richard Wright).

I had a omg moment when I saw that B'Elanna Torres directed an episode!

Also, if the brothers weren't identical, Ziggy would've been perfect to play Frankie.

Oh my gosh you're right, I knew he reminded me of someone

Just binged the whole thing this weekend

So much better than I expected. Loved the way the women all feel like real characters, the way the hookers interacted with each other etc was a huge selling point for me, and Maggie G killed it, so great.

Ruby tho ;_;
I screamed when that john pushed her out the window.

Pelecanos said in the behind the scenes clip that Ruby was based on a real woman & she died exactly the same way.

I think the show did a good job of showing how much of their job is survival, how tough those girls have to be to live that life. Also the desperate shitty nature of pimps. etc.

And I loved that final reverse tracking shot of the Parlor hallway, shiny wallpaper & all but the noises are the same, it’s still basically another Lionel Hotel for the girls. Just another hallway.

also (sorry for multiposting)

totally did not clock Ralph Macchio at first l, had to look him up to work out who he played after i saw his name in the credits

i want a whole season just of Maggie’s character directing porn

Yeah that was def the most interesting plotline/characters imo

She just lit up the screen in every scene. Damn. I have always liked her but this felt like a new level

Some of the conversational riffing and background that's put into verbal exposition doesn't quite land. I was kind of left wondering, is anyone who's working on writing/production end of things actually gay?

It's a much more enjoyable show than I was expecting, especially the decision to make most of the season a slow burn.

Maggie G is a treat in this, for sure, and seeing her on the list of producers seems significant

i'm really excited to see where this goes next season, when the narrative leaps forward a few years. they did a good job developing the minor characters. guys like franco's brother in law, bobby, who ends the first season making a ton of money managing the sex parlor in cahoots with the mafia (and bizarro franco) - when the series resumes, will he be a full-time mafia guy, bossing around regular bartender franco? or will his life just be completely shattered already?

there are gay and trans writers on staff apparently

Feel like the death of Ruby was a case of the show pulling its punches, it would have been bleaker if it had been Ashley (a more tragic character than Ruby) who was killed. During the previous episode I was convinced CC was going to catch up with her and prevent her from getting on that bus to freedom.

xp ok then!

Loved the bit where Vincent asked the junior mafia guy, "I'm not a made man am I?"

Watched the first episode tonight--good start. Franco quite restrained. Lisa P!

hah, I only made that connection after the fact