it's good enough that we're still watching it which is really the only relevant criteria for whether a show is good or bad
― Mordy, Monday, 16 October 2017 22:22 (six years ago) link
idk, I'm on the verge of hatewatching / praying to Q that it stops being repugnant.
― (I'm not a robot.) (Leee), Tuesday, 17 October 2017 00:42 (six years ago) link
I do a see a lot of fan productions being on the dark/militaristic end of the spectrum, to the point that maybe this is what ST's fanbase wants now, and I'd point the finger at DS9 being the turning point.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 20:59 (six years ago) link
Love this more than any Trek since I camped out at the St. Paul campus commons to watch Next Gen in the '90s.
I think the utopian radicalism is still there, just pressed against hard times and reluctant to speechify, which feels appropriate on both counts. The direction/action/FX make the battles as scary as they are striking, and I think the romantic plot and Elephant Man voices of the Klingons oddly give them more humanity than previous incarnations—they're still camp, just more enjoyably so. I love the silent shots, how each show starts with what feels like a cold open that just keeps going, the tense dialogue in suspenseful situations that packs as much evocative meaning as the original series but without underlining itself (sometimes orders must be disobeyed, sometimes monsters aren't, sometimes shame interferes with repair), and stays with me after the plot particulars fade. I like that the show includes a character with autism, but love the suggestion that she still has trouble fitting into this flawed utopia, and that the moral standard of the 23rd Century—and the leading role—may be held by someone other than the Captain.
― Peter Scholtes, Tuesday, 17 October 2017 22:28 (six years ago) link
appreciate the enthusiasm, Peter
― mh, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 03:15 (six years ago) link
Girlfriend (not a natural trekkie) loved Voyager and is loving this and so am I.
― Popture, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 11:26 (six years ago) link
i can understand the reluctance of a star trek show being produced today to fully embrace the series' 'utopian radicalism' (great phrase btw peter) in favour of darker moral shades but i just don't understand why you'd choose to set it within a few years of the original series' swashbuckling optimism, where the clash of tones is going to be the most jarring
like, wouldn't it make more sense, and have more potential for drama, to set it years past tng/ds9/voyager? if you wanted to push past roddenberry's 'no personal conflict' rule like this show does, there's a million interesting stories you could tell. like, every human organisation in history has faltered and fallen eventually - wouldn't it be interesting to ask what would make a future starfleet wobble on its axis and threaten to collapse? what would save it?
anyway, enough fan fiction - it just really bugs me that they're trying to squeeze a morally-compromised star trek story into a place where it doesn't quite fit imo
― midas / medusa cage match (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 11:51 (six years ago) link
we find out why they have all these rules and directives: the federation of the original series was built on top of a stack of dead bodies
― mh, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 13:42 (six years ago) link
bizzaro, I think that, from a studio's perspective, a post-TNG/DS9/Voyager show wouldn't be able draw in the civilian/non-Trekkie viewership. Kirk/Spock are so much well-established in American pop culture, Picard memes aside.
― (I am a robot.) (Leee), Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:17 (six years ago) link
i thought one of the seasons was intended to take place in that era?
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:41 (six years ago) link
I counted them saying "DNA" 6 times which is voyager levels of technobabble
at least they didn't bother trying to explain how they tracked down the kidnapped lorca
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 17:43 (six years ago) link
they dropped the anthology conceit. One of the reasons Fuller left
― Number None, Wednesday, 18 October 2017 20:59 (six years ago) link
bizarro otm, this feels more like dark timeline DS9 than post-Kirk i think the timeline setting is the biggest mis-step. this would work better in a later period. with all the egos & sarcasm & unpleasantness it’d work better not being Star Trek at all imo but that’s just me.
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 October 2017 04:43 (six years ago) link
super interested in space toothbrushes tho
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 October 2017 04:49 (six years ago) link
I can see an artistic argument for going a different, new direction... but I dunno, that's not the appeal of Trek TV to me.
― louise ck (milo z), Thursday, 19 October 2017 06:36 (six years ago) link
super interested in space toothbrushes tho― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 October 2017 3:49 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Squeaky Fromage (VegemiteGrrl), Thursday, 19 October 2017 3:49 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I was wondering what they were doing with those prostate massagers.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Thursday, 19 October 2017 07:58 (six years ago) link
you should check out this show called battlestar galactica
― mookieproof, Thursday, 19 October 2017 12:58 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s77l5ti2ATk
― Flogging Mommy (diamonddave85), Thursday, 19 October 2017 16:32 (six years ago) link
Simultaneously impressed and repelled.
― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 19 October 2017 17:27 (six years ago) link
wish they'd gone with my title, star trek: tardigrading on a curve
― mark s, Thursday, 19 October 2017 17:28 (six years ago) link
lol mookie
xp
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 19 October 2017 17:33 (six years ago) link
This last episode is so much better! I still have a lot reservations about how badly amateurish SF seems to be right now, but I'm *hoping* that now that Michael's gotten back onto the bridge, that we'll avoid the relentless grimness. Her mentoring Tilly is a refreshing development.
Obviously the show is pushing Michael and Ash into a relationship, which is going to be a source of consternation once Ash is exposed to Lorca's tribble.
Klingons continue to be one-dimensional -- so far I hate them. (They were at least TWO-dimensional on TOS, TNG, and DS9.)
Lots of interesting points -- I disagree with how you characterize the Klingons, they're drained of camp IMO as they've been painted as the abject Other (eating Georgiou (my god) sort of changes the stakes). I do like your suggestion that Discovery isn't centering its morality around the Captain, but Lorca has been terrible simply as a character.
― (I am a robot.) (Leee), Monday, 23 October 2017 22:24 (six years ago) link
I don't like this show when it's trying to be the Marily Manson of Trek.
― (I am a robot.) (Leee), Monday, 23 October 2017 22:35 (six years ago) link
I wonder who came up with the DISCO shirts?
― Philip Nunez, Monday, 23 October 2017 22:44 (six years ago) link
CBS really didn’t allocate enough resources to their streaming service when it comes to Star Trek. The stream was a complete disaster live last night! I thought it was maybe just me but a few friends confirmed.
― mh, Monday, 23 October 2017 22:45 (six years ago) link
so was the vulcan haircut just a terrible fashion that happened to coincide with first contact and a while after, or do they have to grow it like that for like logico-physiological reasons
― mark s, Monday, 23 October 2017 22:47 (six years ago) link
Yes on that note why did Michael have a vulcan haircut in her past but now shes just grown it all out.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 23 October 2017 23:20 (six years ago) link
Sarek took her to a federation hair stylist on the way to her new job instead of the barber back home
― mh, Monday, 23 October 2017 23:26 (six years ago) link
I think that was a signifier that her relationship with Yeoh had 'humanized' her
I do like that the first hour or so of the show establishes Trek-as-we-know-it: admirable captain with a familial relationship with her second in command, wacky and idiosyncratic yet endearing crew members, complete adherence to an Enlightenment-derived worldview, etc. This is destroyed as soon as it's introduced in favor of ends-justify-means warmaking and crew members who are seething masses of aggression, bile, and trauma. Paradoxically Michael, the destroyer, is now the only person who seems to remember what the values of prewar Starfleet are, and the viewer after despising her for killing what was familiar now has to root for her as the last living exemplar of what the show 'wants' to be
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 00:10 (six years ago) link
I do not have a book contract, I'm just really pedantic after a couple of beers
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 00:11 (six years ago) link
This is an example of screenwriters getting better with the demands of writing reboots. They could have jumped straight in to the 'dark, gritty' Trek, but they knew they had to introduce it in 'classic' mode to walk the viewer through the transition. In theory it's a great idea, I just think the Yeoh relationship needed more time to breathe. Each scene with the two of them had so many character points to hit, and it had to hit them in quick succession. One flashback to Michael's arrival to show the development and history of the relationship wasn't enough to really make it hurt when Yeoh was offed
― Brakhage, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 00:18 (six years ago) link
Next on Discovery: This is not your father's Star Trek time loop!
― louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 02:18 (six years ago) link
http://www.cbr.com/star-trek-discovery-theory-voq-ash/
Hope it's misdirection that Ash is played as kind of shady.
― louise ck (milo z), Tuesday, 24 October 2017 07:04 (six years ago) link
DISCO t-shirt is tempting.
― Spencer Chow, Tuesday, 24 October 2017 23:38 (six years ago) link
disco! disco disco!
just what I have running through my head every time I see them in the shirts, although I'm trying to place the sample
― mh, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 13:40 (six years ago) link
https://shop.startrek.com/product/Z1CTSTK221/star-trek-discovery-disco-tshirt
― mh, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 15:40 (six years ago) link
there's something wrong with ash -- perhaps someone has put creatures in his body to make him tell lies? -- but him being voq would be enormously bullshit
liked this ep the best so far. probably not a coincidence that it didn't have much klingon content
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:03 (six years ago) link
could he be an augment virus descendant? I can't remember the timelines
― stet, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 16:53 (six years ago) link
I think that if A = V, then maybe they were able to download the real A's memories into V to better impersonate him.
― (I am a robot.) (Leee), Wednesday, 25 October 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
co-sign!
Burnham mentioning "Constitution class, like The Enterprise" was so tantalizing. Will they show it? What will it look like?
― Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 20:01 (six years ago) link
Also, I'm probably not going to order that shirt because of the TM on Disco. Why would that be on the real shirt in the show???
― Spencer Chow, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 20:10 (six years ago) link
it's most definitely not the shirt that was shown in the show
― mh, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 20:15 (six years ago) link
Constitution class Enterprise, according to Discovery:http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/additional/large/dea2_enterprise_pizza_cutter_inuse.jpg
― Philip Nunez, Wednesday, 25 October 2017 20:17 (six years ago) link
I have always hated how that thing has no guard to protect your hand!
― Spencer Chow, Thursday, 26 October 2017 00:39 (six years ago) link
This was a great episode. Extremely predictable - every plot beat involving the admiral I'd seen coming long before - but still great because of how well Isaacs is carrying this very, very flawed character. Now that the admiral's out of the way, looking forward to seeing the Starfleet sharks move in looking to depose Lorca
Agreed that Ash is way too easy, there's some reveal waiting there. He's not Voq but something is up
So, what, the Enterprise has athletic shirts that say E N T E R ?
― Brakhage, Saturday, 28 October 2017 03:28 (six years ago) link
While I'm gushing let me give a shoutout to the DP and the CGI folks, every frame of this show is exquisitely beautiful
― Brakhage, Saturday, 28 October 2017 03:32 (six years ago) link
first episode with ash was highly suspicious -- lorca plants a word in his vocabulary, gets it replayed by his captor, then concludes mudd is the spy because mudd was listening in? i think it was intentionally crap.
― Einstein, Bazinga, Sitar (abanana), Saturday, 28 October 2017 05:08 (six years ago) link
I like this guy's videos, he throws out some possible alternative theories about Ash:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syOt1ntFBJs
LOL, then DS9 would have D E E P S tees.
― Potato Wave (Leee), Sunday, 29 October 2017 19:48 (six years ago) link
Would purchase
― Brakhage, Sunday, 29 October 2017 19:55 (six years ago) link