Killing Joke - Classic Or Dud, Search And Destroy

Well, well, well Dr C, you and others seem taken aback by our defense of Killing Joke but believe me we are not, as some have suggested, a bunch of neandethal zealots. How many gigs did you go to last year ? I could name you hundreds of bands and artists whose vinyls, tapes & CDs I cherish but there's something special about Killing Joke IMHO.

Since the mighty Joke have not toured the UK for 6 years, maybe we're all suffering from PMT (pre manic tension) ! Inukko admitted only hearing post 1994 work - there is a treasure trove of stuff to indulge yourself in - go ahead, enjoy.

And as for the objection to the robust defence, abuse !?! Those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. We're not the elitest ones. Honest.

dr c gives himself away. first he describes kj as "Hopeless. Pomp- post-punk at it's most preposterous. Dud." then he says "I am open- minded enough to give KJ another spin. That was mainly because of DJ Martian's post." trying to make a division between someone who gets his approval as an ILM regular and alex's "posse". (The Gathering, a kj mailing list - not a fanclub - run by a fan for people who want to talk about the band.)

saying things like "do you get a monthly magazine and a little badge for joining?" (um... no), "Have they gone yet?", continually trying to emphasise some sort of 'us-and-them' situation. "Do these people roam the internet stamping out any critisism of KJ?" - no. someone who reads ILM is also a member of the gathering. (can you reconcile those two apparent contradictions?) they sent through a link to this page. quite simple really.

not that i'm defending everything said by the various members of the gathering. some of it was pretty moronic. but that's the point - i shouldn't have to defend it. try to see us a individuals, please. don't lump us all into one category.

if you choose to describe kj as "hopeless" then you should expect some people to get a bit pissed off, y'know? i'm sorry, but they _are_ a very influential band. and it's 'exorcism', not 'exorcist'. the song title is an analogy, it's about the release of suppressed emotions and aspects of our minds that perhaps we don't face up to because we find them ugly. it has nothing to do with "A goth- apocolyptic version of Spinal Tap".

i suggest dr c should think twice before he dismisses a generally well-respected and certainly very original band's entire output as "hopeless" and "preposterous". or at least be prepared to justify his claims when people who like said band unexpected turn up, rather than get all defensive and try to paint a false picture of the fans as a bunch of internet bullies. c'mon, of course we're gonna fight back!

anyway, on a separate note - i agree with jerry when he says kj isn't something you should want to like. it's a feeling you either identify with or you don't. it can sometimes take time to happen, but you'll know when you've got it. and it you don't know what i'm talking about then you don't like them.

Ned picked up on my reference to Play Dead & their ilk. I find them very interesting too. Sure they are influenced by more than KJ (likes of Joy Division & Black Sabbath spring to mind) but 1919's sound was rather more plagiarism, but spirited all the same. They used to credit Jaz on the sleeves but at least they did their own stuff, unlike this appalling culture of tribute bands you get today.

Dr C: "In fact I don't like the late 80s/early 90's 'industrial' scene at all."

Well why are you offering such arrogant and ignorant criticism of one of the industrial scene's most influential groups then?

I think it's important to say something about this forum and what it does.

We discuss music and bands. A lot of bands. There are no set ones we like, there are no set ones we don't. It's about individuals expressing their individual tastes.

All the threads "classic or dud" involve people saying whether a band is 'classic' or a band is 'dud'. Bands are generally used to criticism and rightly do not give a fuck what we think on the incredibly tiny chance that they would even encounter this forum anyway. So everything from reasoned discussion to jokey abuse *of bands* is fair game. Killing Joke have hardly been alone in getting slated by a couple of posters.

If teasing, mocking or abusing bands bothers you, you're probably better off in another forum. We, collectively, did not 'pick a fight' with anyone.

What isn't generally accepted is abuse between posters, because it turns threads into huge boring slagfests. Now some people who post here regularly have overstepped the mark and some people who don't post here regularly have overstepped the mark too. The mark is pretty much an unwritten and unspoken one so that's going to happen occasionally. But as moderator I'm now suggesting that people take the personal stuff to e-mail and any further discussion in the thread is taken to be about the band and not a personal slight on anyone.

Thanks to everyone - regulars or not - who contributed intelligently.

I didn't really feel the need to "leap to defend" KJ, as I think their music can "defend" itself quite well all by itself. However, Tanya's remark causes me to ask what the HELL is the difference whether it's a male or female posting the answer? I always thought that forums like this were to freely dicuss ideas and opinions, regardless of age, race, GENDER, etc. But hey, you learn something new everyday...

To anyone still not decided about KJ: Go to www.the-last-laugh.com Go through the videos link and then the promo link and download the promo for Let's All Go (To The Fire Dances). Then the TV appearance link and download Frenzy, performed live. There's a lot of other stuff too but that's what I like.

Don't worry my KJ Brothers and Sisters- after reading this Dr C's posts I have unleashed a 7 year curse his way. Sometimes you gotta learn the hard way. Don't cross the Joke

I'm shitting myself.

Poor Dr. C, cursed not to have to listen to bombastic 80's crap like Jaz Coleman's ranting.

I pity him so.

Oh Nicole, when will you learn to HONOUR THE FIRE for there is NONE MIGHTIER. You may mock, but in time you will learn the hard way that the Joke are not to be crossed lightly.

I'm getting into this..

A few years ago, during a period when I spent far too much time wandering about doing nothing much, I invented a game, a sort of street AICON, in which I'd attempt to guess which band T-shirt the person walking towards me would be wearing. I rapidly came to the conclusion that there were only three sets of fans I could recognise with any certainty: Chumbawamba, New Model Army and Killing Joke. Never having heard the latter, I've just done as Nick F suggested and went to the Last Laugh website (noting that my mouse trail suddenly said "confirm your worst fears") and downloaded a couple of the videos. I wouldn't associate KJ with the (dread) word twee, but ...Fire Dances features a couple of girls with white knee socks and Mary Janes! As for the music... really, really, really not my thing. Sorry, dud.

Hmmm, if it's not your "sort of thing", why feel compelled to pass judgement on something you have little interest in. Bizarre. If you can dismiss a bands worthiness on the face of a couple of promo videos, it's your very much your loss. You are the weakest link, goodbye.

Does this mean Ann Robinson HONOURS THE FIRE?

In the true spirit of fair play and the utilization of the freedom of information, it should be noted that Nicole (she above who is taking great pleasure in lambasting the Joke) is, by her very own admission (seek ye the "Introduce Yourselves" board) a fan of Destiny's Child. With the utmost respect to all parties involved, I personally would imagine that this absolves her of the burden of credibility in the musical taste department. This is not a personal slight (as I've never met the woman), but merely an obsevation for the benefit of those whose opinions of Killing Joke might be swayed by that which they read here. To her credit, she also likes the estimable Nick Cave and Talk Talk (but how she reconciles them with childish pabulum Destiny's Child I'll never know). Killing Joke is a classic. Destiny's Child is a dud. Honor the Fire! - AlexinNYC

Destiny's Child: classic. Killing Joke: dud. Honor the bugaboo!

Having been to the 'Last Laugh' website, I'm surprised you KJ fans recommend it, as there's a small library of press articles which might as well be entitled 'Why Not To Like Killing Joke, Specifically Because That Coleman Fellow Is An Utter Prat'. Heh heh heh..

even i have to agree with that.

but a talented prat none the less.

Alex: I'm not gonna dis you on the internet, because my momma taught me better than that. But the Joke is another kettle of fish.

Who the fuck are Killing Joke ?

Who the fuck is Geordie Racer?

I like muesli.

"http://thepolywog.com/copshootcop/posters/images/livedemo-01.jpg"

You mean this, right?

Hiya Ned, sorry...inspired by that thread about how to post pictures (which I don't know how to do), I'm practicing here on a thread that seemed long since abandoned. Pardonez-moi. If you know how, I'd love to learn!

Trying again:

http://thepolywog.com/copshootcop/posters/images/livedemo-01.jpg

If anyone gets this far down here, I just wanna say "What's THIS For.." is quite an amazing record, as are moments on "Killing Joke", "Revelations", and "Fire Dance". There are also some good rarities on various compilations... like "Me or You", which completely invented The VSS, and other new wave/gothed out pretty hardcore bands today.

Martyn Atkins has some interesting things to say about Jaz....

My own thoughts on ...what's THIS for... here. And quite positive thoughts they are too. ;-)

To Alex -- okay, looks like what you're trying to do is put a picture here rather than create a link, correct? You've got the address, but you're not putting in the right HTML tags to make it work. Do this instead:

http://thepolywog.com/copshootcop/posters/images/livedemo- 01.jpg

Now, I've added extra spaces here so you can see the code -- when you try it, remove the space before IMG, both spaces on either side of the equal sign, and the final space between the end quote mark and the end caret. That should result in presenting the image as a post.

If anything, Killing Joke are/were a gothed out stomping glam rock band. The drums owe so much to Cozy Powell, Sweet, and other early 70s Chinn/Chapman rock.

IMG SRC= http://www.maliciousdamage.com/gallery/jaz/jaz86.htm

IMG SRC="http://www.maliciousdamage.com/gallery/jaz/jaz86.htm"

gotta put brackets around the source of the JPG, Alex ... like so (peak the code!)

http://www.maliciousdamage.com/gallery/jaz/jaz86.htm

AAAGH!!! Don't listen to me then! :-0

Oh MAN! IT WORKS!

Hurrah for Alex! ONE OF US.

Thanks, Ned!!!! Coulda done it without you. May the rest of ILM tremble......

Whoops, that shoulda read: COULDN'T have done..etc.etc.

Jaz Coleman looks like some diabolical cross between Lou Reed and Syd Barrett in those pix. And I mean that as a compliment, of course!

yeah, i love that pic.

AAAAGGGH! There is none mightier! Don't cross The Joke!

Only joking, Alex ;)

This thread is historic for two reasons:

1) It's basically a proto-type for Jay-Z-Nas-Throwdown, innit? Except all the nutters are on the same side.

2) I'm not sure, but this may be the first recorded case of Alex in NYC using the word "pabulum" on ILM.

I wuv this board so.

And a sensible answer from FatNick! Under his proper name, no less.

I'm gonna be a geek and revert to discussion topic--apparently when Jaz was a wee lad studying at the Royal Conservatory, someone proclaimed him the next Mahler. That and Youth's production on Crowded House's last album was truly beeautiful.

One of them there Killing Joke folks is responsible for a smattering of truly horrendous "symphonic interpretations of rock band's greatest hits" CDs, yes? (There's that interpreted Led Zeppelin CD sitting in the Circuit City racks, collecting all sorts of dust...)

Not that this means I loathe / love the Joke, mind you. The one clip I heard @ Amazon this morning (whilst shopping) didn't do much for me, except make me giggle a bit. (I'm on antibiotics, though, so don't mind me if I laugh @ inappropriate times.)

Mr Raposa, I gotta say that that was a piss-poor job you did of HONOURING the fire, there.

...and, moreover, that what seemed a rather funny remark while typing now looks flatter than a pancake. Sorry.

Yeah, John. You almost made me cry, you meanie.

For the record, information on the offending symphonic records (aided & abetted by a Mr. Jaz "Not Pazz" Coleman) can be found here. And here. AND here. AAAAAAAAAAND ... oh, just check his list of credits. (Working for Disney - how's that for HONOURING THE FIRE!?!)