Simple Minds, classic or dud?

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Tim speaks for me, as usual.

Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Saturday, 12 June 2004 00:55 (nineteen years ago) link

OH WHY DON'T YOU JUST MARRY THE GUY.

Wait that reminds me I must propose to Dan. Oh wait there's a problem there...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:08 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm married, Ned.

I'd probably have more posts than you if it weren't for Tim.

Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Okay, maybe 1/10th as many as you.

Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Tom once texted me to choose between Simple Minds and Crowded House. He must have been at a pub. I replied three weeks later, but I can't remember what I said.

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:19 (nineteen years ago) link

"He must have been at a pub."

Tracer your euphamisms flow so naturally.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:20 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm pretty sure you said Simple Minds, Tracer.

Stacey Pollen (Andy K), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:21 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm married, Ned.

I know that! HMPH. I'll spare my jokes on other people!

(Baby still coming along okay?)

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I can't believe I never weighed in on this. Well, despite the utter soullessness of everything they did from Once Upon a Time onward, the sparkley magnificence of "Promised You a Miracle" and "Up on a Catwalk" cannot be denied. The rest of their stuff? Meh.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 12 June 2004 01:44 (nineteen years ago) link

ten months pass...
Conclusion: Empires and Dance is a perfect 'bridge' album between winter and spring. And my god is it sounding great right this second. "Celebrate" is so cheery AND dour, I love it.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 03:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I bought E&D the other week, wanting to listen to more of the early stuff. Its great! It has a really nice broody 80s asthetic.

I cannae stand anything post-NGD. Altho, Futurama used "Dont you forget about me" to great (and sniffly) effect on one episode.

Trayce (trayce), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 03:35 (nineteen years ago) link

"Thirty Frames a Second" is my current 'whoa, now how did I forget about this?' candidate from this album. "Never going BACKWARDS!"

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 03:43 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah I love that track to death.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 05:44 (nineteen years ago) link

Don't blame Keith Forsey for what happened to them, instead blame the people who bought it. If "Don't You" had flopped, it would've done for them what 'One From the Heart' did for Tom Waits

dave q (listerine), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 05:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Nostalgia aside: kinda dudly.

Bobby Peru (Bobby Peru), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 05:50 (nineteen years ago) link

That Bryan Ferry rejected "(Don't You) Forget About Me" proves that he dwells in an empyrean where common sense and great bad taste are honored for the mutually exclusive qualities they are.

Alfred Soto (Alfred Soto), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:40 (nineteen years ago) link

FWIW I interviewed Simple Minds during the Once Upon A Time tour and after a couple drinks, with the tape recorder off, Jim Kerr admitted they were doing "total hamburger music."

I loved New Gold Dream and Sparkle in the Rain but I remember seeing a Simple Minds concert in 84 and thinking Jim K was the corniest audience-pumper this side of Bono. "GIVE ME YOUR HONDS!"

m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Empires and Dance is fab. "I Travel" has to be the ultimate Walkman song. And as for "30 Frames A Second" - "That's not food! It's DIRT!" Harold Pinter reincarnated in Toryglen!

What a shame he took that walk with Bono on the beach and decided to become U3.

Is their cover of "Sign 'O' The Times" the worst cover version ever?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 12:59 (nineteen years ago) link

And "Themes From Great Cities" should be recognized as one of the great instrumental rock tracks of the '80s

OTM

$V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Marcello: ever heard Gary Numan doing "U Got the Look" and "1999"?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:14 (nineteen years ago) link

WHAT A WONDERFUL WORLD


did Kerr actually sing 'now he's doin' horse, it's June'? i can't remember

$V£N! (blueski), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:15 (nineteen years ago) link

I loved New Gold Dream and Sparkle in the Rain but I remember seeing a Simple Minds concert in 84 and thinking Jim K was the corniest audience-pumper this side of Bono. "GIVE ME YOUR HONDS!"

I saw them in 84 too and it's funny how quickly they ditched all their old material in pursuit of that stadium-appropriate sound. The whole set was Sparkle In The Rain/New Gold Dream stuff apart from 'The American' which I suppose was the one really bombastic song from the older albums.

NickB (NickB), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 13:28 (nineteen years ago) link

I would say "New Gold Dream" is classic, while everything they have done from the mid 90s onwards is dud. The rest is a bit in-between, although I find their actually quite decent turn of the decade work (89-91) underrated by a lot of people.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 14:01 (nineteen years ago) link

10. Kaleidoscope (Kerr/Simple Minds) - 4:17

That's on the Celebration compilation but where did they cull that song from? I've never heard it. Is it some lost b-side, and did they put it on the first Themes compilation?



I've never weighed on this thread, to my amazement. Classic up until New Gold Dream. I love how in "Twist/Run/Repulsion" the French girl's reciting an excerpt of Nevsky Prospect by Gogol.

Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 15:12 (nineteen years ago) link

Heheh, that's news to me, and now I'm glad I know!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 15:17 (nineteen years ago) link

From an acquaintance of mine, Nathalie:

The story is about a man who sees a beautiful girl everyday on the Nevsky Prospect in St. Petersburg and falls in love with her little by little. One day, she lets him follow her (this is detailed in the text quoted in "Twist/Run/Repulsion") up to her flat and he discovers that she's a prostitute. The character becomes dangerously depressed after knowing the truth about the girl he loves and dies at the end of the text.

TWIST is about this vertigo of love, when you feel you are falling in love, you feel a bit drunk, and you're leaving earth... RUN when you rush through the girl you love, when you've dare to talk to this girl who paralyzes you... REPULSION is the disappointment. She was "his innocent, his special one" and she's just a whore. She belongs to all the men who pass...

The excerpt quoted in the song is this (but I think this excerpt continues on for where it ends in "Twist/Run/Repulsion"):
Mais était-il sûr d'être bien éveillé? Se pouvait-il que celle pour un céleste regard de qui il était prêt à donner sa vie, celle qu'il tenait déjà pour une ineffable bénédiction d'avoir pu suivre jusqu'à sa demeure, se pouvait-il qu'elle fût si bienveillante et attentionnée pour lui? Il gravit à grands pas l'escalier. Ses pensées n'étaient plus de la terre; il n'était point enflammé de l'ardeur d'une passion terrestre, non, il était à cet instant pur et exempt de vice comme l'adolescent virginal qui ne respire encore que vague besoin spirituel d'aimer. Et cela même qui, dans un homme corrompu, aurait éveillé d'immodestes pensées, ne faisait au contraire que purifier les siennes. Cette confiance que lui témoignait une belle et faible créature, cette confiance lui imposait le devoir d'une rigueur chevaleresque, le devoir d'exécuter servilement tous les ordres qu'elle lui donnerait. Il souhaitait seulement que ces ordres fussent les plus difficiles, les plus impossibles à exécuter, afin de pouvoir vouer davantage de ses forces à en surmonter la difficulté. il ne se doutait pas que quelque secrète et grave circonstance eût obligé l'inconnue à se fier à lui; qu'on allait sûrement exiger de lui d'exceptionnels services, et il sentait déjà en lui la force et la résolution de tout accomplir. L'escalier montait en spirale, et ses textes se pressaient dans le même tournoiement. "Avancez prudemment!" fit une voix dont le son était celui d'une harpe et qui fit encore vibrer tous ses nerfs. Dans l'obscurité du dernier étage l'inconnue frappa à une porte, celle-ci s'ouvrit et ils entrèrent ensemble. Une femme d'aspect assez agréable les accueillit une chandelle à la main, mais elle regarda Piskariov d'un air si singulier et si effronté qu'il baissa malgré lui les yeux. Ils pénétrèrent dans la pièce. Trois figures féminines, chacune dans son coin, se présentèrent à ses regards. L'une interrogeait les cartes; une autre, assise au piano, jouait avec deux doigts le pitoyable simulacre d'une ancienne polonaise; la troisième, devant un miroir, peignait ses longs cheveux et ne songeait pas un instant à interrompre sa toilette à l'arrivée d'un inconnu. On ne sait quel déplaisant désordre, tel qu'on ne peut le trouver que dans le logement négligé d'un célibataire, régnait de toutes parts. Les meubles, d'assez bonne apparence, étaient couverts de poussière; l'araignée avait garni de sa toile les moulures du lambris; à la porte entrebaillée d'une autre pièce brillait une botte avec son éperon et se devinaient les parements rouges d'un uniforme; une forte voix d'homme et un rire féminin se faisaient entendre sans la moindre contrainte.
Dieu, où s'était-il fourvoyé! Il se refusa tout d'abord à y croire et commença à considérer plus attentivement les objets qui emplissaient la pièce; mais les murs nus et les fenêtres sans rideaux ne révélaient point la présence d'une maîtresse de maison soigneuse; les visages flétris de ces pitoyables créatures dont l'une vint s'asseoir presque sous son nez et l'examiner aussi tranquillement qu'une tâche sur un vêtement, tout cela ne lui laissa point douter qu'il venait d'entrer dans le repaire infâme où élit domicile la triste débauche qu'enfantent la civilisation de clinquant et d'effroyable entassement humain de la capitale. Ce repaire où l'homme, en sacrilège, a etouffé et voué à la risée tout ce qu'il y a de pur et de sain pour faire l'ornement de la vie, où la femme, cette beauté du monde, ce couronnement de la création, s'est métamorphosée en un être étrange et ambigu, où elle a dépouillé avec la pureté de l'âme toute féminité et assumé les allures et les impudences du mâle, et cessé d'être cette fragile créature si belle et si différente de nous. Piskariov la considérait des pieds à la tête, plein de stupeur, comme s'il avait voulu s'assurer encore que c'était bien celle qui l'vait ensorcelé et entraîné dans son sillage sur la Perspective Nevski. Mais elle était devant lui toujours aussi belle; sa cheveulure avait bien la même splendeur, ses yeux toujours le même éclat céleste. Elle était toute jeune, elle n'avait guère que dix-sept ans; il était visible que l'immonde débauche ne l'avait saisie que depuis peu et n'avait pas encore flétri ses joues, qui étaient fraîches et légèrement nuancées d'un délicat incarnat... Elle était belle.

Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 15:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I saw them in 84 too and it's funny how quickly they ditched all their old material in pursuit of that stadium-appropriate sound. The whole set was Sparkle In The Rain/New Gold Dream stuff apart from 'The American' which I suppose was the one really bombastic song from the older albums.

When I saw them in '86 they added "Love Song" to the set and cranked up the wah-motorik factor in it but it was too little too late

Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 16:56 (nineteen years ago) link

i like the live versions of the new gold dream/sparkle in the rain/once upon a time songs much better than the studio ones though.

fortunate hazel (f. hazel), Tuesday, 12 April 2005 17:53 (nineteen years ago) link

I was surprised and gratified to hear an electro-house track that "sampled" "Changeling" (it was more like an instrumental remix), and I immediately thought, "why on earth hasn't anyone done this before" (or maybe they had, I don't know how old it is).

Anyway so I went home and played the real "Changeling" and realised that it sounds a lot like Tiefschwarz! "Thirty Frames A Second" too, though to a lesser extent.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Saturday, 23 April 2005 08:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Definitely classic. And I won't stand for any dissing of Sparkle In The Rain. Although after that it was all downhill...

The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link

"Changeling" and "Premonition" sound like they were made five minutes ago. Leckie's production is impeccably fresh on those songs. From 1979 and yet you could slot them both in a modern DJ set with ease. Well, maybe not "Premonition", but I think my meaning's understood.

Ian Riese-Moraine. To Hell with you and your gradual evolution! (Eastern Mantra), Saturday, 23 April 2005 17:20 (nineteen years ago) link

I always found it how both those tracks were on the second half of the album. They're such great pop songs!

To be more specific about "Changeling", it sounds like what the Tiefschwarz remix of The Rapture's "Sister Saviour" should have been (I should cross-reference this post to an electro-house thread so that Ronan would have to track it down). I'd love to hear a DJ play it in a set.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:07 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the New Gold Dream album, or Sister Feelings Call/Sons of Fascination or oh god, Themes For Great Cities don't EVEN get me started on that one...

But even in the midst of all this, my favourite album remains

http://www.earthwaverecords.com/Pictures/AlbumImg/S/A0042107.jpg

Every few years I simply must hear "East At Easter", or "Waterfront" or "C Moon Cry Like A Baby" (that one has especially been vexing my brain over the last few weeks from time to time for no apparent reason - also remember Kirsty MacColl sang on it). And yes the first song I heard from that album was "Up On The Catwalk" and that was when I was basically a musical virgin because that song was on one of the first tapes I ever made off of college radio - the first time I realized that the likes of Echo & The Bunnymen and The Smiths even existed. Some people don't like the production on Sparkle In The Rain, but it never bothered me. Remember: Kirsty MacColl was married to him and he produced U2's "War": Steve Lillywhite.

The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Also the very first time I'd worked with a computer - in junior high, maybe 1984-ish, I wrote a long detailed graphic program to duplicate the sleeve for Sparkle In The Rain, because there wasn't any faster way to do this sort of thing then. I was proud of my long, hard work and turned it in to my teacher. Ha ha ha, how ridiculous considering you could probably knock it off in a few seconds now!

The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I would like to thank this thread for making me pull out "C Moon Cry Like A Baby" - I have been meaning to pull it out for WEEKS I mean WEEKS and I just don't have time to get to these things.

The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:47 (nineteen years ago) link

To be more specific about "Changeling", it sounds like what the Tiefschwarz remix of The Rapture's "Sister Saviour" should have been (I should cross-reference this post to an electro-house thread so that Ronan would have to track it down). I'd love to hear a DJ play it in a set.

Phew! I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw a connection with "Sister Saviour" and "Changeling"...in fact, I'd even venture to say the production for Echoes owes a ton to Real to Real Cacophony.

Yes - I think it's the gleaming but dirty quality of the synth textures. It's interesting how of all the recent disco-punk albums Echoes is perhaps still the only one to make this rather obvious connection, and then only on half the tracks; and of course Reel To Real... came out a couple of years too early to fall within the scope of electroclash's enquiry. I'm always astonished by the little 1978 on the packaging.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Sunday, 24 April 2005 21:48 (nineteen years ago) link

"Sparkle In The Rain" was a completely pointless attempt at becoming a "guitar band". Some good songs, but they peaked with "New Gold Dream" for me.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 24 April 2005 23:38 (nineteen years ago) link

I remember seeing Simple Minds playing to 25 people in little Aberdeen shitholes in the late 70s. I really liked "Reel to Real Cacophony" and "Empires and Dance", but "New Gold Dream" was the one where I tuned out. Pomp and waffle replaced a kind of intelligent anxiety. Favourite tracks: "Thirty Frames A Second" and "King Is White And In The Crowd".

Momus (Momus), Monday, 25 April 2005 04:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Also, I want to say that Jim's lyrics could be pretentious waffle, a verbal version of the sort of "moderne" illustrations that you'd see in the NME at the time (all angular Belgian ligne claire with Memphis knobs and geometry sets), but they could also be interesting in a WTF sort of way. Maybe when the drugs were working. Take "Naked Eye" from "R-to-R C":

Up on the wall
Going up on the wall
Up on the wall
Naked Eye Naked Eye
What do you see
And what's there to learn
Reading your books
Third diagram
Someone's in the room down below
Someone someone
Someone below
Insects
Cherries
To the cherries
On the wall
Spider

Momus (Momus), Monday, 25 April 2005 04:49 (nineteen years ago) link

"King Is White And In The Crowd" is especially noteworthy, 'tis true.

The Silent Disco of Glastonbury (Bimble...), Monday, 25 April 2005 05:17 (nineteen years ago) link

one year passes...
I just checked out a bunch of their videos on youtube. i haven't heard the early stuff in decades, i have a mixtape somewhere buried in the closet. New Gold Dream was great, mostly. And Speed Your Love To Me was probably my favorite song sometime around freshman year in college. To restate the obvious, just about everything after Sparkle is a massive pile of shit. So sad.

timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 1 July 2006 06:38 (seventeen years ago) link

In the case of "Sparkle In The Rain", everything that was wrong about everything they did afterwards is even more wrong in the case of "Sparkle..."

If there is one Simple Minds album where they ditched all of their New Romantics roots and tried to become U3, then "Sparkle In The Rain" is it. After that they would at least gradually use synths to a somewhat larger extent again.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 2 July 2006 00:05 (seventeen years ago) link

well, Waterfront is obviously a u2 rip, and not my fave, but the rest of the album doesn't sound much like the u2 of that era, although Lillywhite tries. More importantly, the tunes are still mostly good, despite the arrangements, but later, the tunes deserted them.

timmy tannin (pompous), Sunday, 2 July 2006 00:29 (seventeen years ago) link

I suppose I get what you mean Geir, especially if you look at it in the way you look at it, which seems to be based on what the proportion of synthesizers to decibels is. I think Sparkle in the Rain is good because it has enjoyable songs on it and I still like it. The subsequent records don't work that way.

I realized in the past few days that New Gold Dream is probably one of the albums I've had the longest and still listen to regualarly. I recently got the DVD audio thing and it's great. It's got different mixes of some tracks, which makes it all the more enjoyable.

I'm not sure they had New Romantic roots. It all seemed a bit more Punk/Genesis/Teutonic to me up until New Gold Dream, which sounds unlike any other New Romantic band. I suppose they did stick a bit of slap on, though, so that might count.

KeefW (kmw), Sunday, 2 July 2006 00:48 (seventeen years ago) link

I will defend Sparkle In The Rain to the death. Anyone wanna step outside? ;)

Vampire Business (Bimble...), Sunday, 2 July 2006 01:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Recently found on soulseek all the post-Johnny and the Self Abusers and pre-Life in a Day demos and they're really interesting punk tunes, "Pablo Picasso" is hilarious (it's on that Kilt By Death 3CD scots post-punk comp that just came out recently); all sloppy, driving 2-3-chord punk stuff. I was looking at the Simple Minds bin in Virgin a while back and saw that they recently released a CD of what I would guess to be awful covers (Joy Division, Doors etc) but was especially shocked to see they covered Echo & the Bunnymen's "bring on the Dancing Horses" after all the badmouthing Ian McCulloch did on Jim Kerr through the 80's (at one point calling Kerr a "fat mountain goat prancing around.") Looks as if in recent live shows they have been highlighting some of the Empires and Dance stuff, maybe realizing this was the best era?

Brian Turner (btwfmu), Sunday, 2 July 2006 22:55 (seventeen years ago) link

that Kilt By Death 3CD scots post-punk comp that just came out recently

Oh man TELL US MORE (please).

Andy_K (Andy_K), Monday, 3 July 2006 01:06 (seventeen years ago) link

I heard S&F/SFC while at school and loved its beauty, esp. side 2. I also loved the cunning packaging of SFC with the blank label on side 3. The mix and range of styles within the one double lp was very new to me, a pop fan, used to lps inevitable carrying hits and duds. This double lp had no duds !

Years later, i finally got E&D and it seemed a bit dull to me, though i like the intensity of the synth textures. As though the album lacks the something-different-next charm and pace of S&F. I only got R2R a year ago and i think it's extraordinary. I'd hoped to save E&D til later in life (ie now) and have some new discoveries waiting and that didn't quite happen, so it was nice to go further back and find R2R, though i love the brooding trance-ish NGD too.

I have a friend who's equally sentimental about S&F/SFC. We didn't seem to have much in common until we "bonded" over our shared love of that lp. It seems there are others fond of this stuff; a nice thread.

george gosset (gegoss), Monday, 3 July 2006 07:30 (seventeen years ago) link

Can anyone tell me if Reynolds said anything about Reel 2 Real Cacophony and Empires & Dance in Rip It Up & Start Again?

I sort of feel like these albums are a bit underrated in terms of the UK post-punk canon, but that may simply be because I love them so much.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 3 July 2006 12:27 (seventeen years ago) link


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