who are the ten greatest living American filmmakers?

Great to hear, Fred. I put Tangerine in my top 25 of the century so far. that was an amazing movie. Really looking forward to TFP in a few weeks when it comes here.

xp Interesting Alfred... i'll dip out of this convo til I see the movie, curious to hear both yr guys' thoughts.

I liked Tangerine but this film showed he hasn't a clue (yet) how to pace a feature length film.

according to A White it also has fatal "class condescension" issues.

Well what doesn't, outside of Mel Gibson movies?

A colleague called it "tourist porn," which it isn't -- it's child cuteness porn. It accepts that these horrifying children are charming little dears.

Life's too short to engage with what A White thinks ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's just so great. The colors, the framing of the pictures, every single actor, the way it feels like life is just drifting by, while on retrospect it's really tightly constructed, the colors, the sunsets, the fantasmogoric view of America, the music, and oh, did I mention the colors?

that's the problem, which you hit -- I had an existential fear that anyone outside Florida would nod and think, "See? Here is this phantasmagorical view of America." What you see in this movie isn't Orlando, isn't Disney, isn't Kissimmee -- it could be shot in Sarasota, Jacksonville, outskirts of Tacoma. It doesn't even get the noise level right.

and all the reviews are falling into the trap of writing, "See? Here's America." It's so fucking condescending.

One thing, I'll grant, it does get right: the colors of a summer sky in Florida before a thunderstorm. But the children are so poorly directed -- and the ending so misconceived that everyone in the screening room laughed -- and Willem Dafoe so obvious that, of course, we can discuss Oscar nominations. There isn't a hotel manager in the world as generous as Dafoe; he's managing a flophouse as if it were a Disney gift shop, and Disney gift shops wouldn't let customers get away with what Dafoe does.

I kinda don't care if it's accurately Orlando, the feeling of phantasmagoria was equally powerful in the films Baker shot in California. It's something he does in all his films.

The sound design is absolutely incredible and expressive. It's not about getting anything 'right', it's not a documentary. It's a work of art.

Also, Baker isn't the only one doing phantasmagorical America. Soderbergh in films like Magic Mike and Logan Lucky (just the names...) and the Sadie Brothers' Good Time. As examples. Baker is just the best one.

It fails as fiction.

Soderbergh's Tampa lives. So does American Honey, which covers much of the same ground, is half an hour longer, and the more moving film.

I do want to see The Florida Project mainly on the basis of Baker's previous film (which I didn't flat-out love, but found intriguing enough to see what he does next), and the disparity between the reviews I've been seeing and Alfred's reaction makes me, if anything, more curious about it, but American Honey is a serious red flag for me. I know that it was acclaimed, but I found it so tedious and unlikeable that I bailed on it with about an hour still to go in its (endless) running time.

What was the last great Florida movie? Sayles' Sunshine State?

Frederik revives this thread for a guy who's made two fucking features. Clown.

I'd say Ulee's Gold was the last to really get its topography; I dunno if it's great.

I'm posting a review at the usual places tomorrow.

Turned American Honey off in record time.

Frederik revives this thread for a guy who's made two fucking features. Clown.

Hey, if there was a single director out there who I thought hadn't yet made a ghastly mistake, I'd be enthusiastic too.

If any force, natural or supernatural, can make Shia TheBeef tolerable for at least a third of a picture, then I can keep hoping this same force will kill Donald Trump.

Sean Baker has made six feature films. I've only seen the three he has made this decade.

I forgot I saw Starlet. Not good.

What was the last great Florida movie? Sayles' Sunshine State?

watched this last week, not good

oh cool – this thread will go on all day!

Happiness was partially set in Florida iirc. So I guess that.

What was the last great Florida movie? Sayles' Sunshine State?

SPRAAAAANG BREAK FOREVER

Also, Bully.

not everyone will agree with me but imo a great florida movie is sun don't shine

SPRAAAAANG BREAK FOREVER

I don't think of that so much as a Florida movie as I do life itself.

Last great Florida movie = Impulse w/ William Shatner.

SPRAAAAANG BREAK FOREVER

I don't think of that so much as a Florida movie as I do life itself.

― Anne of the Thousand Gays (Eric H.), 12. oktober 2017 14:55 (fifty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

True. That film is everywhere and always.

What I wrote about The Florida Project anyway

Saw it today. In between Fred & Alfred but erring on Alfred's side - my main issue with the movie is it lacks any forward momentum, and the ending feels tacked on and forced. I was intrigued by the helicopter that kept taking off and landing by the motel, and when the cops & CPS came, I got the idea that the girl was going to run and jump into the helicopter and fly away. A beautiful, absurd fantasy of an ending that was making me cry even as it didn't play out. I thought the idea of them seeking asylum in the Magic Kingdom was nice, but again, the movie was so poorly paced & kind of boring as a mood/atmosphere piece. Some things I loved: the colors obviously, Willem Dafoe's performance (yes Alfred, perhaps not the most common landlord, but I've known a few landlords that he reminded me of. he was my favorite part of the movie by far), Baker escalating situations beyond where most directors would stop or cut (the one parent beating the shit out of the other, the pedophile, the johns coming into the room when the kid was there).

As far as it representing Florida or America or being a "See? This is real America" - well, I trust the guy that actually lives in Florida. Fred, I think the fantasy of this movie does its subject(s) a disservice. I still liked it, and it confirms Baker's status as one of America's most interesting directors, but I was let down- mostly because I loved, loved, loved Tangerine so much.

Reading this is such a relief.

huh had no idea Florida Project was directed by same person as Tangerine

Well, violently down the middle on Florida Project.

For awhile, yes, Alfred is right that the movie takes for granted that "these horrifying children are charming little dears" and, left-field quips aside, not remotely convincing. Eventually, it settles into truly expert "everyone has their reasons" territory -- many moments of unforced efficiency. (Am thinking of the interlude with Willem Dafoe's son, I think, saying he doesn't want to "do this anymore," and also clearly understanding why Dafoe's character feels compelled to continue. And how the sudden pattern of bathtime play interludes gently invites the audience into a new and unpleasant plot point.)

And it has a knack for portraying squalor in a way that makes it clear how adults can see their environment one way and kids another way entirely. But one of the movie's most obvious but well-realized examples -- the birthday fireworks a half-mile away from the real show -- just underscored how the abrupt ending didn't fucking work. After Tangerine, which had one of my favorite endings in recent years, this was a damp squib. Even taking into consideration how it brings "reality" crashing into a 6-year-old girl's life so violently she has nowhere to turn to but desperate fantasy. But the movie's a lot stronger when it sticks to things like the tourists' helicopter endlessly taking off: exciting to kids, a slap in the face to the destitute adults.

Still, I'll refrain from calling any filmmaker willing to devote serious career energies into depicting the American underclass condescending until we actually have anything remotely like an appropriate proportion of filmmakers devoting serious career energies into depicting the American underclass.

Oh, and didn't need lines like, "Do you know why this is my favorite tree? Because it’s tipped over and still growing." Not at all.

That was the best line! Perfect metaphor for America in 2017. And such a gorgeous image of them sitting on the tree, absolutely beautiful.

I don't want metaphors for America in 2017 or ever.

Well, if a lot of people in the US agree with you, that's probably a major reason why American art is so shitty.

plz get your motherfucking Sean Baker discussion outta my thread

(Frederik, you don't know shit about America)

That gorgeous shot was why we didn't need the line

I thought the Florida project was excellent and it/baker should probably have a thread

I agree the shot was better. But line -> shot was a gorgeous piece of editing.

And yeah, as the best American director of the decade, Sean Baker probably deserves his own thread.

That gorgeous shot was why we didn't need the line

This. Plus the entire movie leading up to that point.