Search & Destroy: John Coltrane

Should I bother with Chasing Trane? It's playing in a couple weeks, but I'm afraid it's just going to be one of those standard issue talking head "He was a genius. He changed music" type docs.

this was my review, if it helps you decide: http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2017/08/free-form-thoughts-on-john-coltrane-and-how-not-to-remember-or-talk-about-him-next-time-maybe/

Lol so it's exactly as bad as the trailer makes it look. Fucking Carlos Santana, I swear it's in his contract that he gets to be in every single one of these.

There's also a new Lee Morgan doc which looks maybe a little more interesting? Have you seen that one?

i haven't, no, sorry

lol i just realised you replied on the thread i first posted this on -- making the same remark abt santana! apologies for insisting you reread it all

haha I actually forgot, I had a vague memory that I had made that comment somewhere but didn't realize it was in response to same, brain is getting old

i just read dizzy's autobio and it was cool that he thought that ornette and coltrane were the first new thing since..you know, dizzy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MARZANYmD5Y

Birthday broadcast on WKCR today

Totally want to see the Lee Morgan doc.

good lookin out, forgot. Their current stream player works much better than what they previously had.

You mean what they came back with after the snafu? Yeah, even has a functional playlist, I think.

I might have stayed tuned to WBGO but I don't really dig The Rhythm Revue.

Also enjoyed Sinkah's review thinking of FPing him for dissing Jimmy Heath.

insert ^but

wait i didn't diss him :0

"stellar" indicates level of celebrity outside jazzdom not quality of musicianship

Ah, got it.
The Einstein Intersection you mention in your review made me think you might be interested in the paper by Rob Schneiderman linked here: Math & Music: The Severed Alliance. Some Recent Academic Approaches (Do Not Read If You Hate Drums)

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/films/chasing-trane/

Coltrane doc debuts on PBS tonight

Chasing Trane features never-before-seen Coltrane family home movies, footage of Coltrane and his band in the studio (discovered in a California garage during the production of this film), along with hundreds of rare photographs and television appearances from around the world. Coltrane’s incredible story is told by the musicians who worked with him (Sonny Rollins, McCoy Tyner, Benny Golson, Jimmy Heath, Reggie Workman), musicians inspired by his fearless artistry and creative vision (Common, John Densmore, Wynton Marsalis, Carlos Santana, Wayne Shorter, Kamasi Washington), Coltrane’s children (Ravi, Oran, and step-daughters Michelle Coltrane and Antonia Andrews) and biographers, and well-known admirers such as President Bill Clinton and Dr. Cornel West.

heard this was not particularly good, but maybe there's some interesting footage?

i relistened to that Tell Me How Long Trane's Been Gone radio doc a little while ago and it is still great.

because they are cheap and I got interested, I've been picking up the "Mastery of John Coltrane" series that was issued in the late 70s. Lots of interesting stuff there and more substantial than a simple cash-in comp. Most of the material has since been added to various CD reissues, but since I didn't have that stuff they've been a nice discovery.

Taped the PBS doc, but also watched first hour of it before going to sleep. As a non-expert I found it interesting, informative and entertaining.

uhhh https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/07/arts/music/john-coltrane-lost-album-both-directions-at-once.html

wow

crazy, right? the opposite of the barrel-scraping i've kinda come to expect at this point ...

(not that I don't love barrel-scraping)

If you're gonna scrape a barrel, Coltrane's is the barrel to scrape.

and WOW. Can't wait to hear this. It seems odd that a studio recording went undiscovered for so long. And that photo in the Times piece is now my favorite inside the Van Gelder studio: you really get a sense of the size of the room, how the musicians were placed in it, miking, etc.

Whoa!

I got a stream of it last month but it was embargoed (technically till tomorrow, but Gio got permission to jump the gun, I see). It's good; all the music was recorded the same day as the take of "Vilia" that showed up on the CD of Live at Birdland, so somebody must have really dropped the ball to forget this stuff existed for so long. Anyway, it doesn't have the soul-crushing intensity of Crescent or A Love Supreme; in 1963, these guys were still capable of going into the studio smiling and having fun. But it kicks all kinds of ass and is totally worth hearing/buying.

only two mics, both right over the kit?!

https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/06/08/arts/08coltrane2/08coltrane2-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

er
https://static01.nyt.com/images/2018/06/08/arts/08coltrane2/08coltrane2-superJumbo.jpg?quality=90&auto=webp

one on the bass and one on the piano but... what is John playing into?

Extremely psyched about this

There's def a mic in the piano and one on the bass. Sax has to be mic'd too, probably just can't see it.

Good question...maybe this wasn't a recording moment, and he had a spot outside of the photo to record?

xp

or maybe he's just not mic'd up yet. I suppose he could have a spot on the other side of the piano somewhere. looks like a v big room!

only two mics, both right over the kit?!

Best way to do it, imho (of course, the room has something to do with it, too). Glyn Johns was another engineer who didn't close-mic every element of the kit; I think he used no more than four mics on Keith Moon's gargantuan setup.

Likely moved Coltrane's mic for the photo, or else it'd be in front of Jones.

just to be clear, my initial post was before I spotted the bass and piano mics - not really surprised at a two-mic drumkit setup in the mid-60s.

the new song sounds wonderful — though I don't know why there's confusion about who wrote it ... can't they ask Tyner? (maybe he doesn't even remember).

Could be wrong, but I think it was pretty standard not to have a kick drum mic in jazz. Kick drum isn't really essential to jazz the way it is in rock, it's more for accents.

And I don't think anyone was close-micing every drum in 1963, but I could be wrong about that too

fuck knows how a '63 JC album goes missing for so long, but good work whoever found it!

Yeah, I don't think drum kit close-micing became a thing until Geoff Emerick/the Beatles in '66, and then that suddenly became the only/default way to mic drums.

xp

Really excited to hear this. Pretty much an untouchable era for this band.

I hope it's not heretical to say I prefer the 1965 Antibes recording of Love Supreme to the studio version. I think they captured some magic that night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlrQZc3h13E

When I bought this years back the packaging somewhat deceptively lead me to believe I was buying the studio album, so it was a bit of a surprise when I put it on. But that also meant it's become the "canon" version in my mind.

In the years since I've heard other recordings of the Antibes residency and they are stunning. "My Favourite Things" goes to some places.

I hope it's not heretical to say I prefer the 1965 Antibes recording of Love Supreme to the studio version. I think they captured some magic that night.

Not at all -- I definitely prefer the live recording. I never loved the studio ALS; I think they made better studio records before (My Favorite Things) and after (The John Coltrane Quartet Plays, and especially Sun Ship). The Antibes ALS reaches heights the studio version only hints at.

I remember reading that they performed it live one other time, in Philadelphia, but it wasn't recorded.

ok I gotta hear that Antibes set

It's on one or another "deluxe edition" of ALS, which also includes the somewhat fascinating alternate ALS (or parts of it) with Archie Shepp and Art Davis added to the quartet.

This one.

I don't care much for the alternate, larger band studio recordings. But the live set that kicks off disc two is pretty much essential.

Crescent > A Love Supreme