Men at Work get a pass because the two huge Cargo singles ("Overkill," "It's a Mistake") rip their Business as Usual counterparts to shreds. But they still weren't very good.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 19 September 2017 23:00 (six years ago) link
business at usual was the first album cassette i ever bought
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 23:38 (six years ago) link
xpost That's funny. sometimes on my phone links show, sometimes less so.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 23:55 (six years ago) link
ha, Business as Usual was the first album (LP) I remember getting excited about buying. It was a Thursday and I knew I would get it on the following Tuesday. This is how I remember that Thurs-Tues = 5 days.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 00:49 (six years ago) link
the first cassette i bought was She's So Unusual
young(er) people do learn of classic hits thru, hm, classic hits radio (this song has been a mainstay at that format forever) -- doesn't have to be grand theft auto or glee or rock band
― dyl, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 00:59 (six years ago) link
love this song. i made a few remixes of this recently. one is looping just the intrumental hook part over and over w stuttering gitchy noise. the other is that beat slowed down really slow with a repeater instead of pitch bending. ill post them here when i find them!
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 01:00 (six years ago) link
xpost Honestly didn't know young people listened to the radio. Even then, don't know what classic hits radio is. Trying to think what local station would play "Africa" ...
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 01:30 (six years ago) link
Men at Work rule
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 01:52 (six years ago) link
The common take is that Men At Work benefitted from the Police taking too long in the studio, due to a few superficial similarities, but yeah, that first album at least is pretty strong.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 01:55 (six years ago) link
anecdotally, i heard "africa" at the roller rink when i was a kid, but i never gave a shit about it until vice city came out. i'm 41. and i didn't actually ever _play_ vice city.
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 02:07 (six years ago) link
Case closed. Blame "Vice City."
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 02:09 (six years ago) link
africa by toto is a meme
― Rob Lowe fresco bar (m bison), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 02:29 (six years ago) link
i definitely became more "interested" in toto once i learned they were studio whizzes who played on steely dan recs... as a youngster i just grouped them with stuff like air supply, didn't know they were the ones who did that awesome 'love isn't always on time' song
― brimstead, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 02:44 (six years ago) link
and i definitely grew to enjoy the production of "africa" and the huge, brilliant chorus
― brimstead, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 02:45 (six years ago) link
See - and I know at least on paper they are of a totally different class - but I always grouped them not with Air Supply and the like, but REO Speedwagon and bands like that.
I think only Jeff Porcaro played with Steely Dan. The rest of them were your otherwise ubiquitous studio hacks who handled everything from yacht rock to top 40. I'll give them this, though, "Human Nature" is a sophisticated little track.
BTW, I just learned than one of Toto's former and now, again, current singers is the son of John Williams.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 03:17 (six years ago) link
If you're looking for an explanation of "Africa"'s surge in appeal among Millennials, don't underestimate the i-VI-III-VII progression of the chorus. For better and for worse, hat progression and its inverse (I-V-vi-III, which "Don't Stop Believing" is built around) have become to 00's pop what the 12-bar blues and the doo-wop progression were to the 1950s and 60s. Those two progressions were relatively uncommon in the early 80s, but you started to hear them a lot more when alt-rock and pop-punk went major in the 90s. Since the heyday of Blink-182 they've been fucking inescapable. But they're a pop lingua franca, so older songs that use them probably slot a lot more comfortably into contemporary medleys and playlists.
― Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 04:00 (six years ago) link
Inspired by UMS's praise, we watched the Colin Hay documentary this evening -- and it is indeed very good. Highly recommended to all.
― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 04:02 (six years ago) link
All classic songs are cathartic and capture a sensation or feeling or moment in time or what have you... I don't know what this song captures... the lyrics are fucking dumb and obviously written by someone who doesn't know much about Africa so I'm inclined to think this song is not about africa but about the idea of it... this song is about wanderlust isnt it?
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 05:24 (six years ago) link
It's the catchy musical elements of the track that make this song great - the opening keyboard hook which repeats in the verses, the beauty of the vocal melody in the verses followed by the passion and longing of the vocal melody in the chorus (especially when married to that chord progression) and it's all impeccably played and performed.
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 06:37 (six years ago) link
Sometimes it's less what a track spells out, and more what a track suggests that is the appeal.
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 06:51 (six years ago) link
My theory is that it's a good song and ppl like it― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, September 19, 2017 5:24 AM
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, September 19, 2017 5:24 AM
otm
― alpine static, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 06:54 (six years ago) link
My re-entry point came with the Late Nite Tuff Guy edit, which re-surfaced last year. I had a few weeks of being obsessed with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDwI0DTqD_A
― mike t-diva, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 11:55 (six years ago) link
never underestimate people's love for "randomness" and absurdity. for me there's a sort of tension between the lyrics and the music that elevates the song, even beyond the sort of nameless melancholy evoked by both the music and the lyrics. the impressive feat of "africa" is that it manages to get lyrics so poor to sound so good. indeed the lyrics almost function like dissonance does, something to be resolved by the music. that tension is what makes it relistenable without launching a massive "enough of this shit already" backlash.
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 12:36 (six years ago) link
See, I can't get past the lyrics. I have no real problem with the music (save the synth-sax solo), but the lyrics to me just suck.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 13:06 (six years ago) link
Rushomancy otmfm
― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 13:19 (six years ago) link
I will concede a glass-half-empty stance, but if the lyrics weren't so clunky and dumb this song could have been great. Or, yeah, "In Your Eyes" 1.0.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 14:24 (six years ago) link
I really appreciate the aforementioned deep dive into the chord progression, I think there is really something to that.
Can I quibble, though? Pretty sure "Don't Stop Believin'" is I-V-vi-IV (not I-V-vi-III as thewufs wrote).
don't underestimate the i-VI-III-VII progression of the chorus. For better and for worse, hat progression and its inverse (I-V-vi-III, which "Don't Stop Believing" is built around)
It's I-V-vi-IV that is "Let it Be" and "No Woman No Cry" and "Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For" and on and on. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I%E2%80%93V%E2%80%93vi%E2%80%93IV_progression
― Each of us faces a clear moral choice. (Ye Mad Puffin), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 14:53 (six years ago) link
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:36 AM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
yeah also, after the goofiest of all the song's goofiest lines "As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serengeti" it hits you with this existential dread:
"I seek to cure what's deep inside/frightened of this thing that I've become"
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 15:18 (six years ago) link
^^^ yeah that line is kinda BOC actually
― harbinger of failure (Jon not Jon), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 16:03 (six years ago) link
Yeah sorry the last chord on "Don't Stop Believin'" is IV.
― Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 16:46 (six years ago) link
The existential dread line is ruined when he explained it:
Paich told SongFacts.com,
That was me using a lot of writer’s license. I remember seeing lots of films of starving and famine when I was a kid in pictures of Africa. Then I’d seen some movies and read a lot of the National Geographics, and always wanted to go to Africa, so I romanticized this story about a social worker that goes over there and falls in love with working with the country and doing good.
But he also falls in love and has to make a choice between helping people for the rest of his life or having a family and doing that kind of thing."
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 16:46 (six years ago) link
The fourth chord in the progression, I mean.
― Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 16:47 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwNGR792Ifk
― global tetrahedron, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 16:49 (six years ago) link
good lord
― alpine static, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 16:59 (six years ago) link
'we wanted flying cars, instead we got pitch-shifted toto'
-- bob marley
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 20 September 2017 17:03 (six years ago) link
The third chord alternates between vi and iii every other line, maybe that's what he meant?
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 17:29 (six years ago) link
'we wanted flying cars, instead we got pitch-shifted toto'-- bob marley― mookieproof, Wednesday, September 20, 2017 5:03 PM (forty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― mookieproof, Wednesday, September 20, 2017 5:03 PM (forty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
LOL!
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 17:54 (six years ago) link
I ruined these lines for myself a while back by singing "I seek to cure what's been pan-fried / frightened of this thing that I bacon". In hindsight it totally makes no sense, but if you wanted to do some targeted marketing of porkstuffs to 20-something necrovores, well you could do worse.
― plp will eat itself (NickB), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 18:25 (six years ago) link
As I mentioned it was just a mistake, but yeah, I know that. It's a nice little twist, though I'll bet your average shitty bar band doesn't even know it's there, at least not without a fakebook. Still, I never want to hear "Don't Stop Believing" again in my entire life. Despite the horseshit exoticism and godawful lyrics, I won't get sick of "Africa" for a while to come - musically it's just a more interesting song, but also it hasn't even approached "Don't Stop Believing" levels of saturation yet. I swear, around the Boston area that song was already overplayed before the Sopranos finale even came out.
― Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 19:50 (six years ago) link
structure of Africa is also more rewarding, verse creates tension resolved in (somewhat) cathartic chorus
Don't Stop Believin' has an all time verse that the chorus doesn't come close to delivering upon
― niels, Thursday, 21 September 2017 05:54 (six years ago) link
I bless the rains down in #Nambia— Brian Gillespie (@BrianKGillespie) September 20, 2017
― Dan Worsley, Thursday, 21 September 2017 09:15 (six years ago) link
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 20 September 2017 15:18 (yesterday) Permalink
Good posts! I had a similar thought about Ventura Highway recently, another song my dad band is covering. It's the slight amateurish awkwardness of the lyrics that make them work -- the sense of a college freshman trying really hard in a poetry workshop instead of a pro songwriter that gives them some life, lead to unusual phrasings that give the song some of its rhythmic interest etc.
― the last famous person you were surprised to discover was actually (man alive), Thursday, 21 September 2017 12:38 (six years ago) link
I know-oo-wo-oo-wo-oo-wo
― Each of us faces a clear moral choice. (Ye Mad Puffin), Thursday, 21 September 2017 12:53 (six years ago) link
it'd just be cool if virtually every single "rediscovered" meme song, with the possible exception of "total eclipse of the heart," were not by the absolute dude-est of dudes. meet the new suffocating canon, same as the old suffocating canon
― sick, fucking funny, and well tasty (katherine), Thursday, 21 September 2017 14:00 (six years ago) link
[instrumental break]— africa by toto bot (@africabytotobot) September 21, 2017
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 21 September 2017 14:05 (six years ago) link
xp I'm willing to put in the work to make the Go-Go's "Head Over Heels" happen
― Monster fatberg (Phil D.), Thursday, 21 September 2017 14:33 (six years ago) link
Well there's "Girls Just Want to Have Fun", which has 441 Million views on YouTube, but I don't think that one is meme related. It's probably just legitimately popular and timeless.
― MarkoP, Thursday, 21 September 2017 14:37 (six years ago) link
so Girls Just Want to Have Fun = legitimately popular and timeless
and Africa = not legitimately popular and timeless
got it
― alpine static, Thursday, 21 September 2017 15:28 (six years ago) link