TOTO "africa" classic or dud

I think Paich is a professional songwriter? I don't really think these lyrics fail as pop lyrics.

OK lol saw the discussion upthread; clearly some people put more thought into these lyrics than I did.

Scansion on "Serengeti" is p forced too

It makes me happier than it should that pizza parlour covers dude seems to have launched a career off the back of it:

http://www.mikemasse.com/

being in a band where I have to sing harmony on Africa gives me special appreciation for what a terrible chewy mouthful the lyrics are.

there is nothing wrong with either the lyrics or the music of this song.

Sure as KilimanJARo RISes like a LIMPness above the SARANgetNEEEEE

No it's SEEHHHHR...engeDEEEEEEEEEE

"There's nothin that a hundred men OR MORE could ever doooooo" -- the "or more" is such a "Damnit, how do I make this lyric fit the melody?" thing.

there are plenty of things wrong with the lyrics or the music of the song and the inescapablility of it is reaching "sweet caroline" depths

i'd give my life for this song

yes i feel like the ubiquity has sharply increased in recent years and i'm curious what spurred it.

it couldn't have been Jeffster, could it?

I'm just a couple years too young to remember the first time around, so I don't have a sense of how ubiquitious it was when it came out. I did just hear it on saturday night at a work event.

Love this song, but this is Groundhog Day by this point

xxpost lol Jeffster i forgot abt that

No matter how I feel about this song (underrated: Rosanna), everything about the Serengeti line drives me nuts. The way it's delivered, the way it squeezes too many syllables in, the way it compares an iconic mountain to another iconic mountain ...

yes i feel like the ubiquity has sharply increased in recent years and i'm curious what spurred it.

Was just talking about this the other day. It's kind of akin to "Don't Stop Believin'"'s resurgence, but at least that was bolstered by both ironic and serious pop-culture/sports use. "Africa" ... I have no fucking clue. Though it does make for the funniest "Shittyflute" clip, imo.

I mean are these songs whose legends have actually grown with nostalgia? At least with Livin' On A Prayer I feel like people got just as excited about it back then as they do now.

Re forced scansion- my friend used to memorably rag on Minutemen for "The toiLET / Starts fluSHING"

I honestly don't know who is into these songs, but I do get a sense it is more than just, say, people my age. The question is, why would someone 20 years younger than me be into "Africa," or "Don't Stop Believing'" or "Living on a Prayer?" Certainly they don't seem to be particularly into Journey or Bon Jovi, let alone Toto, as bands. Maybe they are?

Anyway, Toto is just the most mercenary shit, imo. Super players who sort of lucked into a time when their brand of schlock would be heavily promoted and consumed, maximum AOR. Though I do like this surprisingly ambivalent Xgau review:

Toto IV (Columbia, 1982)
Wish I could claim this millionaire Grammy-rock was totally pleasureless, but professionalism is rarely that neat. The fattest of all studio bands is almost as hooky as Shoes or the Ramones, and their production excesses at times betray verve, delight, even (though I must be mistaken) a sense of humor. But the lyrics are utterly forgettable, and the tone and spirit have nothing to do with rock and roll--unlike Thom Bell, to whom they've been rapturously compared in Billboard, they don't know the difference between slick and smooth, between hedonism and conspicuous consumption. At least Michael McDonald learned his shit from the real thing; Bobby Kimball and Steve Lukather learned theirs from McDonald. Still, for a band that crosses Chicago, Asia, and the Doobie Brothers, they have their glitzy moments. B-

let's not forget the derulo kinda cover
a work of art

I never really got the impression that this stuff went away among the white working class?

Seriously, I don't think it's that surprising that big singles would endure longer than the bands' oeuvre (although I totally have known younger people who are into Journey and Foreigner as bands; the latter seems to have a definite following in Western NY state). Wrt "Don't Stop Believin'", it always did stand out to me among Journey's radio staples so it never surprised me that it became the one that was revived, even if it wasn't their biggest hit at the time.

how is Toto more "mercenary" than 8 million critically beloved songs recorded by session musicians at Stax, Motown, by the Wrecking Crew etc?

like Hal Blaine is sitting there thinking oh man I'm glad I'm not playing jazz Sonny & Cher really pumps my nads

Africa keeps getting lifted up on a sorta regular basis by GTA, South Park, Stranger Things:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa_(Toto_song)#In_popular_culture

and other weird places, like a famous couple's vaca video:

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/13/toto-africa-lyrics/

sorry if I am just repeating stuff everyone already knows, it's possible i'm misunderstanding the convo?

Hold The Line > Africa

All these songs were the height of awesomeness to a younger me: "Africa," "Hold the Line," "Rosanna," "Don't Stop Believin'," "Heat of the Moment." I had them all on 45. Styx, Foreigner 4, REO Speedwagon. Loved it all. I was eleven.

But what about Triumph's "Magic Power"? "I'm young, I'm wild, and I'm free. I've got the magic power of the music in me." It was top 10 in 1981 and hasn't had its Steve Carell pop-culture resurrection. It's due. Everyone with the ability to text the relevant people should get right on that, forthwith.

I would argue they are more mercenary because the quality of session guys are different. The Motown or Stax guys, for example, played to the song. The Toto guys, they had serious chops, and wrote songs to their serious chops. Under the logic that they are better players than everybody else, therefore they can construct better music than anyone else. Sort of like some prog bands, but without the adventure or invention, imo. Or like, I dunno, Asia. I think it bears considering, if I recall correctly, that Toto as a hit making force was actually pretty hit or miss, but not for a lack of churning out schlock.

I think of a cat like Larry Carlton. Awesome in Steely Dan, but left to his own devices more or less sucks.

What does mercenary have to do with quality? What do you even mean by mercenary?

God help me you are not making me c&p a dictionary definition of a word on the internet

Anyway Africa rules
Agree w Ye Mad Puffin I'm a sucker for AOR schlock

Ha, I quite like a couple of Larry Carlton albums (s/t - the instrumental tracks anyway - and Larry & Lee with Ritenour). Whatever criticisms could be made of them, I don't see how it could be argued that his solo instrumental fusion records are more mercenary than his pop session work. (I think that confuses me about the distinction you're making, too, tbh: doing what the producer needs you to do to make hits out of other people's songs seems more mercenary than writing songs to your own chops.)
xp!

Under the logic that they are better players than everybody else, therefore they can construct better music than anyone else.

did they actually say this or something

the rest of the post.. ru drunk

Not drunk! Anyway, I guess it's just relatively rare for a group of session dudes to actually spin off into their own band (is it?), and by mercenary I suppose I sort of meant cynical, just unleashed from the relative restraint of session work in service of someone else's vision in favor of slick but, well, serviceable AOR. Like, this is what they do when they're on their own, this hugely talented crew of dudes? They wanted to sound like Toto?

Re: the band's chops, I have to admit I haven't listened to much Toto, though I have watched several Jeff Porcaro youtube clips, and while I've always been impressed by his dedication to come up with new and cool ways to assist the group's pap, I've been less impressed by the other dudes, who often find a way to show off in the cheesiest, silliest way possible (like the synth-flute solo in "Africa," for example.) Anyway, if y'all want to defend Toto, that's cool. They're like number one million on my list of uncool bands I'd want to defend.

Don't know if I missed this somewhere, but isn t a big part of the recent popularity of "Africa" and "Don't Stop Believing" down to each having been prominently featured on hit TV shows.

When was "Africa" used? I like the "Grand Theft Auto" theory.

Oh, wait, you mean "Africa" in "Stranger Things?" I dunno, it felt like it had been simmering to the surface before that. Whereas Journey clearly had a big uptick after the Sopranos ep. Isn't that when it became the most bought song on iTunes or something?

my former students on fb like africa by toto, a quality sound recording from the 1980s decade

don't stop believing has been big in San Francisco forever, long before the Sopranos. It's been like the semi-official song of the Giants for some time.

"They're like number one million on my list of uncool bands I'd want to defend."

where are they in relation to Poco?

poco are cool as hell

Yeah, isn't Poco kind of cool Cali country rock?

Re: Journey and sports, I brought that up earlier. They've always been around sports. In fact, infamously when they were gearing up for the World Series or playoffs or something, the Detroit Tigers (who had adopted Don't Stop Believing) played it while entering the field to play ... the San Fran Giants.

they play "lights" in the middle of the 8th inning at at&t park, i believe

anyway Journey are undeniably a better 'band' than Poco were because they wrote lots of pretty memorable great songs and Toto wrote Africa and Rosanna. They played on Thriller which is great.

I think Stranger Things definitely played a part in the "Africa" revival.

Toto. toto. not poco. they're the same thing to me. see

the first time I saw renewed interest in Africa was when Low covered it for AV Club which was certainly before Stranger Things.

renewed hipster interest, that is

Could there have been a slow accumulation of "Africa" covers that no one notices until suddenly it's a revered old classic (see also Talking Heads "This Must Be the Place"). This is one of the big numbers in my 17-year-old nephew's high school chorus group's repertoire.

there are covers of 'this must be the place'?

Re:Cover - I saw John Pizzarelli & Jessica Molaskey's cabaret show in 2013, and they opened with a mashup of "This Must Be the Place" (sung by Jessica) and the Beatles' "Two of Us" (sung by John). Also, Shawn Colvin recorded an acoustic version on her Cover Girl album.

Also, The New Yorker said it was so in 2012, so it must be so.