also missing from his list: One Size Fits All and Roxy and Elsewhere, both classic IMO― Moodles, Sunday, September 17, 2017 1:05 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Moodles, Sunday, September 17, 2017 1:05 AM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Ah yeah, One Size Fits All is great. His last truly great one, IMO.
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Sunday, 17 September 2017 07:53 (six years ago) link
Dunno, after Hot Rats it just ain't for me. Shame because half of what comes before is pretty classic
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Sunday, 17 September 2017 08:51 (six years ago) link
That "Lakshi's Delight" is really nice.
― Robert Adam Gilmour, Monday, 18 September 2017 14:47 (six years ago) link
For me Sheik Yerbouti is where things went so irredeemably wrong that I basically gave up on any future releases.
― "Celebration" encourages the listener to celebrate good times. (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 September 2017 14:49 (six years ago) link
that was the first Zappa I ever bought. it's pretty amazing to hear so much about what a genius Zappa is and how he's unparalleled as a composer etc. etc. and then actually buy one of his albums and have it contain a song like "Broken Hearts Are For Assholes". made me laugh at least. not sure how much of the album I could stomach now. though I'm pretty sure "Flakes" is still a great tune.
― frogbs, Monday, 18 September 2017 15:05 (six years ago) link
Also City of Tiny Lites and several others, it's pretty well split between great and terrible tracks.
― Moodles, Monday, 18 September 2017 16:03 (six years ago) link
Dylan impression on Flakes worth price of admission alone
― licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Monday, 18 September 2017 16:50 (six years ago) link
biggest problem with sheik yerbouti is that he cut as much adrian belew from the songs as he could when belew left to tour with bowie. belew was the star of that band, and there's _lots_ of badass playing from him that was left on the cutting room floor because of personal animosity.
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, 18 September 2017 17:05 (six years ago) link
In the interest of fairness, I just relistened to "Flakes" and "Tiny Lights" for the first time in many years. I think you guys want something different from a Zappa record than I do.
"Yo Mamma" is the only song I remember liking; hot guitar solo, but even that one has really cheesy synths.
― "Celebration" encourages the listener to celebrate good times. (Dan Peterson), Monday, 18 September 2017 17:11 (six years ago) link
none of it sounds like 60s MOI, if that's what you mean
― Moodles, Monday, 18 September 2017 17:40 (six years ago) link
I love both the idea and execution behind "Rubber Shirt," I love the bit of Sinister Footwear that wound up in "Wild Love," I like the guitar jams and "City of Tiny Lites" and the Dylan impersonation a lot, and most of the album is forgettable or outright gross. SY was my 1st FZ album (bought in '79 when it came out) followed a few weeks later by Uncle Meat -- it was interesting connecting the dots between the two.
― WilliamC, Monday, 18 September 2017 18:24 (six years ago) link
I guess I'm alone in hating the Mothers albums.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 18 September 2017 18:43 (six years ago) link
lol I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who hate any given Zappa album
― frogbs, Monday, 18 September 2017 18:59 (six years ago) link
I dig jazz from hell, it sure ain't for everyone
― brimstead, Monday, 18 September 2017 22:45 (six years ago) link
eat that question doc is worth a look
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 18 September 2017 22:56 (six years ago) link
zappa was my number 1 since adolescence. I've been obsessed most of my life, but the recent barrage of docs/interview footage combined with some amount of getting older and the evolution of our collective societal notions has really soured me on him as a man and consequently put me off of a lot of his music. the guy had absolutely no respect for women to the point where he was downright abusive. his political satire does actually get fucking racist at times. id much rather listen to later beefheart record now a days. that dude humbled out. zappa didnt.
― Shart Dressed Man (kurt schwitterz), Monday, 18 September 2017 23:26 (six years ago) link
i kind of moved on myself. i became less impressed with him as a composer once i actually started listening to other modern composers. and goddamn there is no excuse whatsoever for "the illinois enema bandit". what a vile hunk of misogynist trash. he's got some good stuff, but his awful stuff is _really_ bad.
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Tuesday, 19 September 2017 00:48 (six years ago) link
kurt OTM
Zappa was absolutely against censorship and being censored by the state but he was always off the money post We're Only in it for Money because that was the last time he was in touch with anyone
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Tuesday, 19 September 2017 00:53 (six years ago) link
zappa was out of touch, Carlos had the market on progressive synth music covered in the 80s and he was doing some corny ass shit
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Tuesday, 19 September 2017 00:54 (six years ago) link
The posthumous release "Hammersmith Odeon" has 3 cd´s from that tour. Unfortunately without a version of "Wild Love". I liked the Capitol version of "Lumpy Gravy" (without the vocal parts and heavy razorblade editing) better than the official release. The Capitol version is on disc 1 of "Lumpy Money".
So I read Belew did the liner notes of a yet-to-be-released box of Zappa tour recordings, I think from '77.
Writing for orchestras, somehow I tend to see Zappa as a more melodic version of Boulez. "Yellow Shark" is a late masterpiece. I like it better than his Synclavier-music.
― EvR, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 15:00 (six years ago) link
This is intriguing. Don't think I've ever heard Belew fully unleashed with Zappa.
― Moodles, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 16:25 (six years ago) link
jesus this kicks so much ass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBbH6EsNBAQ
― Shart Dressed Man (kurt schwitterz), Tuesday, 19 September 2017 16:56 (six years ago) link
Some epic keyboard grooves from Tommy Mars on this one
― Moodles, Tuesday, 19 September 2017 17:05 (six years ago) link
ok Zappa is a very strange choice for this
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/frank-zappa-hologram-to-perform-with-steve-vai-others-w504727
― frogbs, Friday, 22 September 2017 18:58 (six years ago) link
why is he a strange choice? the zappa cult has pretty much proven it will eat up anything plus guitar mag dorks are the biggest marks in music (throwing vai into the equation)
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 September 2017 19:00 (six years ago) link
plus holo zappa can't throw them dirty looks when they fuck up
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 22 September 2017 19:06 (six years ago) link
Zappa's shows tended to be improv and banter heavy. like what are they gonna do here.
― frogbs, Friday, 22 September 2017 19:08 (six years ago) link
collect the dough put it in the bank
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 September 2017 19:18 (six years ago) link
how much is this really gonna make, after the cost of putting together the hologram (that's still quite expensive isn't it?) and paying all these musicians?
― frogbs, Friday, 22 September 2017 19:20 (six years ago) link
I'm sure the ticket prices will be nuts. This is such a fuck-you from Ahmet to Dweezil, it makes me sad.
― WilliamC, Friday, 22 September 2017 19:31 (six years ago) link
not to mention that Frank himself would've absolutely hated this idea
― frogbs, Friday, 22 September 2017 19:32 (six years ago) link
frogbs it's almost touching the way you feel that somehow this fiasco must've been given some good thought or that ahmet gives a fuck if it's any good or not
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 22 September 2017 19:33 (six years ago) link
my folks saw dweezil recently, they said it was a great show
― brimstead, Friday, 22 September 2017 19:38 (six years ago) link
I had a deep listen to Over-Nite Sensation, Apostrophe (') and One Size Fits All last night for the first time in a long while, and I really love how those records sound, just so warm. Every time I hear 'Inca Roads' I'm impressed that Zappa managed to get a bunch of musicians to play it - some of the passages/changes in that track are total wtf.
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Saturday, 23 September 2017 08:16 (six years ago) link
Belew on the hologram shows: holy shit, too much drama, count me out
here are my final thoughts on the entire Zappa affair: respectfully count me out.I will not be playing Zappa music in the foreseeable future in any situation. this whole thing is far too caustic and divisive.I will say I have always admired Dweezil for playing his father's music and playing it so damn perfectly. I remember time spent with young Moon and how much I really liked her. recently I met Diva for the first time (she works on Billy Bob Thornton's tour) and she was very nice to me. though I have yet to meet Ahmet in person, he too has been nice to me. earlier this year he asked me to write liner notes for the upcoming Zappa Halloween box set and he treated me respectfully.I do know one thing: Frank loved his family.I have many positive creative things to do. I hope you all will enjoy them. none of them will have anything to do with the current Zappa universe, but I will always revere and love Frank.
https://www.facebook.com/AdrianBelew/posts/10150895474944995
― WilliamC, Monday, 25 September 2017 12:09 (six years ago) link
Hey brimstead, I saw Dweezil years back - basically 3-4 hours of guitar solos, for better or worst. One thing I wonder regarding Zappa is how much he used tape manipulation in later material vs. his earlier records (from "Freak Out" through "Uncle Meat"). It seems the earlier records were rife with edits/jump cuts and his later material he used editing to graft his guitar solos onto random songs, but it's less obvious? Some of the documentaries go over this to some extent..
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 25 September 2017 19:13 (six years ago) link
I think on the earlier records, the editing was meant to sound bizarre, even if the editing was brought on by having to censor the record (see the finely crafted edits on the '60s 'Harry, You're a Beast') - by the time he got to the late '70s, I think he became more concerned with smashing stuff from different sources together but trying to make it sound like it wasn't the case. I guess there was also an element of "let's see what interesting polythythms can happen", too...
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 25 September 2017 19:37 (six years ago) link
*polyrhythms
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 25 September 2017 19:38 (six years ago) link
yeah Turrican that sounds about right
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 25 September 2017 19:47 (six years ago) link
It's hard to say what the ultimate example of his "xenochronous" approach is, though. Probably something from Sheik Yerbouti or Joe's Garage, I'd say. I think almost all of the guitar solos on the latter are shoehorned in from unrelated tracks.
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:17 (six years ago) link
rubber shirt
― bob lefse (rushomancy), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:19 (six years ago) link
Yeah, that's the one I was mainly thinking of!
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:25 (six years ago) link
I'm wondering if the dislocated nature of Trout Mask Replica influenced Zappa's "xenochronous" approach.
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:27 (six years ago) link
never listened to joe's garage before
this is complete horseshit
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:33 (six years ago) link
its a grower man
Frank Zappa's JOE'S GARAGE: Classic or Dud?
― kurt schwitterz, Monday, 25 September 2017 20:34 (six years ago) link
catholic girls and crew slut are so bad jesus christ frank
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:37 (six years ago) link
Zappa's late '70s band were a great bunch of musicians, but his lyrics had gotten so puerile by that point.
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:38 (six years ago) link
ok fembot in a wet t-shirt might be worse, i'm out
― Universal LULU Nation (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:42 (six years ago) link
I'm pretty sure that later on in the album he manages to outdo even that.
― more Allegro-like (Turrican), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:45 (six years ago) link
Zappa's attempts to parody his audience/or musical trends of the time (like new wave) were so misguided and bitter. Kind of guy who vouched for freedom of speech so he could say anything ignorant he wanted, but never truly gave you the idea if he MEANT it. Plus his audience loved it in the later part of his career, and he became the thing he was "sneering at" - a hateful bigot
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 25 September 2017 20:45 (six years ago) link