Hillary Clinton: Classic or Dud?

Also I do think it's right that some individual journalists were too focused on stuff like the emails in an attempt to appear fair.

Hillary should have known that she'd get a lot of flack for the fact that she was under investigation for her unsecure server and that she was seen as an "insider" who was too cozy with the wrong kinds of special interests. In a post-Occupy world she should have even expected to face an economic progressive in the primaries and have to beat back criticism of her record from that perspective. It's weird she complains about this stuff.

What she couldn't have expected is that she would he running against the feral king of the doofus underworld. Comparing the kind of coverage Hillary got to the kind of coverage Trump got is a weird exercise because Trump isn't even really a person, much less a candidate. He's a provocateur and an entertainment project and also a kind of demonic amalgam of everything that is disgusting about America.

There was no way to cover him in a way that could be both critical and effective. He was running against the media. The people who liked him would never listen to a pundit, or anyone who portrayed themselves as anything but a dirtbag.

These panel members on cnn discussinf her book are morons. No one cares that Hillary is sharing how "upset" she was. No one ever wanted her to be more honest or less "fake" that was just some sexist line people used.

otm

Dud: One Last Tour of Hillaryland

As for those of us in the media, who were penned up at the front of the event, Clinton had no time. She was an hour late. When she entered the building, she triumphantly held up a copy of What Happened, sat down, and immediately began signing books. There were no public remarks.

Strict rules for attendees of Clinton's book signing in NYC pic.twitter.com/lUPC3dbxJS

— John Haltiwanger (@jchaltiwanger) September 12, 2017

it is funny that the two share this antagonism towards the media.

she ended up inadvertently promoting him. most of her ads featured him. it was actual part of her campaign strategy at one point, to isolate the more moderate Republicans, bringing us this yuge asshole she could easily run against by running the numbers.

(1/?) Some thoughts re: this and re: HRC's account of WV https://t.co/cCTBhVP53N

— The Trillbillies (@thetrillbillies) September 14, 2017

not certain any of that counts as "some thoughts"

"the Obungler" what a rich vein you've found, Simon

sarcasm

if you're going to do "(1/?)" why not just write "1."

lol that bugs me too, Halper is the worst for that cause she also uses ellipses / doesn't finish a thought per tweet. for whatever his flaws Jeet is the most formally disciplined threader

internet has been terrible this week bc of this fucking book

tweets and books are natural enemies

"Clinton’s politics are a threat to the ideology of the modern Republican party, but so is her presence on the public stage. Clinton maintains that the government must expand its protections for children and families, and make it possible for men and women of all backgrounds to prosper.

"She sees the nation as an interdependent community – a village, one might say – overseen by a government that advances the interests of all. In essence, Clinton is calling for the expansion of the New Deal state. It is an inclusive vision; it assumes that government policies should treat all Americans equally. Since the 1930s, a majority of Americans has agreed."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/13/republicans-hillary-clinton-vanish

fantastic hillary interview on maddow last night. that nasty woman is my president, sorry benedict donald

i can only imagine the tough questions

“I am proud to be a Democrat,” Clinton writes, “and I wish Bernie were, too.” Clinton’s fealty to the Democratic brand is quaint given how dysfunctional and mossy the party can seem in contrast to the Republicans. But, for better or worse, the Clintons essentially have been the Democratic Party for over 20 years, and they are nothing without their authority and credibility within it.

Sanders, on the other hand, is an independent socialist who has caucused with Democrats throughout his 26 years in Congress but never changed his party affiliation, not even when he ran for president as a Democrat. Clinton will never let Sanders live this down. Still, where her critics and supporters alike will read the book’s harshest passages about the primary and detect nothing but contempt for Sanders and his fans, Clinton’s sense of injury is bigger than her feud with Sanders. “I think we operate better when we’re between center-right and center-left,” she recently told Vox, elaborating on her bland outlook on the Resistance, which she outlines in the book. “Until recently, that’s where most Americans were.” That’s the Clintonism speaking, and it has never sounded so obviously out of step with a Democratic Party that is still fighting Paul Ryan’s tax reforms—and now also contending with the rise of authoritarianism. Those words, and this book, are the language of a badly flagging standard-bearer who has, frankly, run out of time.

https://www.theringer.com/2017/9/14/16307594/hillary-clinton-what-happened-clintonism-sanders-trump

fantastic hillary interview on maddow last night. that nasty woman is my president, sorry benedict donald

― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, September 15, 2017 9:15 AM (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

what does this even mean?

It means Qualmsley would rather Hillary was president that Trump

cyndi larper otm

yeah join the club

you can see again watching that interview why vlad the imptrump prefers 2scoops to her. fierce realness. not that it's a surprise

If they held the election again, I bet Hillary would win ilx

...."vlad the imptrump"?

Winning ilx is about all Hillary would manage

What she couldn't have expected is that she would he running against the feral king of the doofus underworld. Comparing the kind of coverage Hillary got to the kind of coverage Trump got is a weird exercise because Trump isn't even really a person, much less a candidate. He's a provocateur and an entertainment project and also a kind of demonic amalgam of everything that is disgusting about America.

This elevation of Trump to a mythical doesn't scan at all. He is president because of the elite's imcompetence.

Sure. That's how he was able to successfully run against "the establishment." But part of the way he did that was by making a mockery of the whole election charade. And the way he did that was by becoming a human obscenity.

his most insidious trick was convincing people that the Secretary of State/Former First Lady was somehow "the establishment"

Well, she is - what Trump did was to call her out as part of "the establishment" while he, Donald Trump, was on your side against "them".

This worked as Clinton was imcompetent.

I mean, I don't think his supporters were serious about being against the establishment. They were annoyed at a culture they thought was leaving them behind and wanted to stick it to the people they held responsible, thinking it would have little consequence to themselves. If they wanted some kind of *political* alternative they wouldn't have supported someone so incoherent, who was radical only in his willingness to offend people and make a spectacle of himself.

The people who Trump said he would hurt the most were Muslims and Latinos, not the establishment.

Treeship continually otm itt

No he isn't.

Trump clearly talked about a jobs programme (I mean its not just a culture, left behind is a factory closing and a city becoming a ghost town), infrastructure development, about drugs that were ravaging the inner states. Trump is incoherent but his language is a lot more colourful than Hillary's technocratic babble and it cut through to people.

Racism was clearly a part of the picture but it wasn't all of it.

Racism (and sexism) was so much a part of the picture that splitting hairs about it doesn't make sense unless you want to tell yourself that America isn't as racist as it actually is.

I would argue it was both- we'll be talking about this election for the rest of our lives because it was a confluence of pretty much every major issue in 21st America, & seemingly opposing views- that HRC was too wonkish & specific, that she was too distance -that Trump was an incoherent demagogue, that Trump made plain, easy to understand statements- it's all true. EVERYTHING was a part of it.

Trump clearly talked about a jobs programme

ahahahahahhhhahaaahahahhahahhahaahh *dies*

Imho the elite incompetence most at fault was the invention of the electoral college

but that is baked into our half-assed experiment, as it were

Superdelegates

what really was behind trump's popularity was [something that supports my worldview]

I mean, it's clear that our toxic culture is the product of a predatory economic system, and the Republican party which has for decades been very efficient at redirecting economic anger against minorities and the elitist scolds who are said to advocate for them. This script was ready and waiting for Trump, he just decided to go further with it, to be more explicit. He's not a subtle guy.

I don't think people by and large believed in his jobs program deep down. I think they connected with the dystopian image of America he painted because they were comfortable pointing the finger at the familiar enemies.

Trump clearly talked

bullshit

Trump was not the right wing Sanders.

The "bringing jobs back" and all the rest of it was bullshit. He is no answer to anything, but his so-called programme was clearly answering the needs of many.

You can say sexism had to do with Hilary's loss but surely there were many racist attacks on Obama, and he won. Twice. No electoral college this or that.

Got no idea what HRC's excuse was. xps

I mean, it's clear that our toxic culture is the product of a predatory economic system, and the Republican party which has for decades been very efficient at redirecting economic anger against minorities and the elitist scolds who are said to advocate for them. This script was ready and waiting for Trump, he just decided to go further with it, to be more explicit. He's not a subtle guy.

I don't think people by and large believed in his jobs program deep down. I think they connected with the dystopian image of America he painted because they were comfortable pointing the finger at the familiar enemies.

You fundamentally misunderstand the way this country works.

The "predatory economic system" we have inherited was borne out of slavery. Economic anger against minorities, particularly black people, is built into it and doesn't need active encouragement. This isn't something that was invented by and nurtured by the Republicans; this is an integral part of America's DNA, going back before the country declared its independence. Any analysis that doesn't start directly from that premise and take that into account erases the reality of the American experience for African-Americans at the very least, if not every minority group that has come to this country, and is incomplete/invalid.

strictly speaking slavery was an invention of that predatory system and not the other way around but otherwise I agree

I don't think people by and large believed in his jobs program deep down.

I think you'd be surprised how far anyone promising tiny, incremental changes to their material conditions will go with people.

You can say sexism had to do with Hilary's loss but surely there were many racist attacks on Obama, and he won. Twice. No electoral college this or that.

Obama was a superlative candidate. There were racist attacks against him but, in both elections, his Republican rivals repudiated them, which I theorize led to suppressed voter turnout for their side. Trump played up every vile attack that was slung against Clinton, from the sexist to the racist-by-proxy, and increased his voter turnout. Also, Republicans gerrymandered districts in their favor to warp the electorate in their favor during Obama's presidency AND worked to disenfrachise voting demographics that were not breaking their way; I would argue strongly that Clinton's faults combined with Trump's faults actually being a motivating factor to the worst people on Earth combined with voter suppression combined with the baseline shithole that makes up America's moral compass is what has led us to this point.