Louie (Louis C.K.'s show on FX)

i havent watched his show since David Lynch was on but the episode described in that Truth In Jest? article sounds horrifying

it's discussed upthread and as with most of the episodes involving his relationship with the Pamela Adlon character, it's pretty gross and unpleasant.

iirc there was some interview shortly after that episode aired with Louis and Adlon where Adlon explicitly defended it as not actually sexual assault or something similar.

what is it supposed to be if not that though? (i haven't seen it, but unless that description in the article is flat out wrong i don't see what else it could possibly be supposed to be depicting?)

it's not assault it's just flying too close to the sun you know

it's messy, like real life! he'll bleed all over that electric fence dawg! questions like 'am i assaulting someone' are boring

http://www.vulture.com/2014/07/californication-pamela-adlon-interview-louie-rape-scene-tv-recap-culture-debbie-harry.html

Back to the “rape” scene:That definitely made me uncomfortable. On the page, that scene couldn’t have had as much tension as what you two ultimately brought to it.

That’s something that Louis came up with on his own, and when I read it I was dying laughing, because in the script he said, “Louie approaches her closing off the ring” — which is like a boxing terminology — and then he said, “and she’s holding on to the walls and furniture like a cartoon cat.” So when I read it, it read hilariously. Then on the day that we were shooting it, I was like, “Let’s really get into it,” and I grabbed the dresser and all of that. And then at a certain point, I looked at him and I said, “Somebody might get mad.” But, you know, people are saying that he forced the kiss on me at the end in the doorway, but actually, I’m standing there and he said, “We’re romantic and I know you want to do something with me so I’m going to kiss you now.” And I’m sitting there and I go, “Okay, maybe.” But — I don’t know. I certainly am an advocate for women’s rights and everything. I have three daughters.

The notion that we’re being careless and putting some kind of dangerous message out is offensive to me. But I can’t help what people feel and what reaction they give to things. I said something to Louis at the beginning of this season, which was that when we’re doing stuff, more than going for a laugh or anything — or a reaction — we’re going for a feeling. If we come up with something and we both go, Oh my God, that’s amazing, we know that we’re making a feeling that people are going to respond to and really like.

it takes a really brave person to do something that they think is amazing without any consideration to how it will be received by others

can we get a trigger warning amen

For those who havent seen it iirc the scene ends after the kiss...? It was def a wierd/unpleasant scene.

yeah iirc when i saw it i assumed it would turn into a bigger plot point, cuz it was a fucked up thing, and was puzzled when it just wasn't mentioned again. feel somewhat less puzzled now when i see how obliviously clumsy he is at navigating this whole area

That Vulture URL tho

Rewatched the "Model" Louie episode tonight, the one where he gets a gig in the Hamptons. All the density and unpredictability of a great short story. And also transparently an anxiety dream. Ripe for being "Problematic" but aware of itself.

I saw I Love You, Daddy and I am already dreading the takes. It's extremely uncomfortable viewing, sometimes productively, other times not so much

https://www.villagevoice.com/2017/09/18/jen-kirkman-on-election-night-anxiety-touring-as-a-woman-and-dealing-with-rumors/

“There are rumors out there that Louis takes his dick out at women. He has never done that to me,” Kirkman asserts. “I never said he did, I never implied that he did.” She continues, “What I said was, when you hear rumors about someone, and they ask you to go on the road with them, this is what being a woman in comedy is like — imagine if there’s always a chance of rain over your head but (with) men, there isn’t. So you go, ‘Should I leave the house with an umbrella, or not?’”

“Sometimes there’s nothing there. I think this might be a case of there’s nothing there,” Kirkman says. “If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, and if any women want to come forward and say what he’s done, I’ll totally back them, because I believe women. But I just don’t know any.”

For what it’s worth, Kirkman and C.K. have known each other for many years, and she describes him as a mentor figure, the person who encouraged her to branch out of alternative comedy spaces and into larger, mainstream theaters. She says they still talk regularly, but she’s been reluctant to speak about the whole incident; after Jezebel caught wind of her 2015 podcast episode, she deleted it. “I’m the one that opened it up by doing that dumb podcast, and I thought people would understand the nuance of what I was saying, and they didn’t,” Kirkman says. “So I brought it on myself. And then I deleted the podcast, not because Louis paid me off, but because it was causing so much attention.”

I thought Kirkman did say that though? I guess maybe not. Anyway she is a great stand up, really funny.

she said this

And then I had another guy who is a very famous comic. He is probably at Cosby level at this point. He is lauded as a genius. He is basically a French filmmaker at this point. You know, new material every year. He’s a known perv. And there’s a lockdown on talking about him. His guy friends are standing by him, and you cannot say a bad thing about him. And I’ve been told by people “Well then say it then. Say it if it’s true.” If I say it, my career is over. My manager and my agent have told me that. They didn’t threaten it. They just said to me “You know what Jen, it’s not worth it because you’ll be torn apart. Look at the Cosby women.” And this guy didn’t rape me, but he made a certain difficult decision to go on tour with him really hard. Because I knew if I did, I’d be getting more of the same weird treatment I’d been getting from him. And it was really fucked up, and this person was married. So it was not good, and so I hold a lot of resentment.

which doesn't square at all with what she's saying now

Yeah, I have no idea what the missing "nuance" there could be

she's clearly walking this back, for whatever reason. first statement she says "I'd be getting more of the same weird treatment I'd been getting from him" immediately after "this guy didn't rape me" which certainly would seem to imply that he did something to her specifically that was gross and wrong without rising to the level of rape, like, say, taking his dick out. Not to mention "He's a known perv" is now "There are rumors out there."

couldn't help but think of pamela adlon's finest hour when reading that interview above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIhFU8JG_j0

haha yeah. if I ever met her I think it would be impossible not to ask her to say that.

the kirkman insinuation is basically the main source of the "louis ck abuses women" or am i wrong?

seems bizarre to just pretend that didn't happen years later

I thought there was something from the Garfunkel and Oats duo too

or maybe that was just speculation? I'm not turning anything up specifically

xps. (extremely badly written two posts there, having missed "rumors" from the first one and really meaning more like "strange to tell a quite clear and different story years after the original insinuation caused a widely-held belief that louis ck sexually assaults women)

I think Jordan's Gawker article preceded the Kirkman podcast by a year or two, and it sure sounded like Garfunkel and Oates were being mentioned there.

and Tig Notaro's recent comments

yeah that podcast came after my story. as for why she's walking it back well...

If I say it, my career is over. My manager and my agent have told me that.

this sentiment was expressed to me several times after my story, and by people w/ far more fame & power than jen kirkman

for the record i don't think the implication is that louis himself would try and end someone's career, but there is a belief that nobody will hire someone who is going to go talk to the press about things that happen behind closed doors

Tig Notaro's comments also seemed to be in reference to other alluded to acts, but now I can't remember.

there was something involving a doorknob

there might have been a chair, also a space. there was a scent.

no no no

there was a feeling

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/09/arts/television/louis-ck-sexual-misconduct.html?referer=https://t.co/FsClOQQgFw?amp=1

glad this is finally out there.

hope it tanks his career, have a niggling doubt it won't

Really? Idk dude is done, if Kevin Spacey is getting replaced in movies, Weinstein's career was over in less than a week, and now Louis' movie premiere & Colbert appearance were cancelled before this story came out, I think it's curtains on his career.

lots of 'where's the evidence' and 'ethics in gawker journalism' upthread when this stuff was rumoured years ago

if it had been better reported at the time, perhaps it would've led to the story breaking earlier! Shift in public opinon and what looks to be some serious Times reporting is what got the job done; there's three major writers attached to the story.

give me a break

5 and a half years ago (when the gawker story came out) isn't today and our cultural moment. I'm sure nobody wanted to talk about it on record. If they did want to why did the NYT not cover the story then? Why leave it to Gawker?

yeah the problem w/ the gawker thing was that they published it without having talked to any of the victims, witnesses, or louis ck. they wrote "we heard this rumor can anyone confirm that for us"

that's v different from the NYT sop

yet the details of the incident in aspen were correct

In 2015, a few months before the now-defunct website Defamer circulated rumors of Louis C.K.’s alleged sexual misconduct, Ms. Corry also received an email from Louis C.K., which was obtained by The Times, saying he owed her a “very very very late apology.” When he phoned her, he said was sorry for shoving her in a bathroom. Ms. Corry replied that he had never done that, but had instead asked to masturbate in front of her. Responding in a shaky voice, he acknowledged it and said, “I used to misread people back then,” she recalled.

wow, i wonder how many more are out there?

probably countless?

must be so embarrassing to mix up your assault victims

you can get the story right and report it wrong. media sits on so many stories bc they can't substantiate them and they have a higher standard than feeling pretty sure about it. i don't regret arguing against gawker's MO above.

in any case, now is totally the wrong time to have the gawker reporting argument

this is immensely disappointing news and it's depressing and unjustifiable that this guy fucked with any number of women's careers and lives.

huh I had assumed it was the Garfunkel and Oates ladies

xxp

I'm really curious to see how this one goes because most of these guys who've been shamed recently don't have a huge devoted fanbase or aren't considered in their prime. Will Jen Kirkman speak out and how are all of Louis' angry guy fellow comedians going to treat this?