King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

I love the recordings of the Muir band. Most of them sound like shit, but where the hell else are you going to hear stuff like a Wetton-Cross violin duet?

So I'm reading Bill Bruford's autobiography (which had been sitting on my bookshelf for many years), and it's pretty great. Even though some of the music doesn't really hold up for me (but some really does), I've always connected with his approach and mentality. He's a smart dude and writes well about the industry and his own performance anxieties etc.

in the court of the crimson king title track never fails to pitch up my reality when i hit play - maybe overstated or cheesy to say that - but the song makes everything cool

I remember buying that on CD when I was 15 and when the chorus came on it felt like my heart stopped

Those nostrils are classic.

Just ordered the Epitaph box - four CDs of live material and BBC sessions from 1969. I've read that the sound quality's kinda rough at times, but the performances are amazing, and it's not that easy to find, but the KC webstore got hold of a few copies.

yeah it's pretty good. the first two discs sound good; it's the second two that sounded worse.

Has anyone seen them live recently? They are coming to Berlin soon for two concerts and I still don't know if I want to go.

Last summer in the USA... if you saw them in 2014 not much has changed but the repertoire has expanded. If you haven't seen them at all then absolutely

I saw them just about a year ago. Wrote about it here. You should go, but expect a tightly disciplined (no pun intended) show.

yes you should see them if you like crimson at all. it's not like you're going to have another 10, 15 years of tours with fripp to see.

I’m a bit surprised he’s kept it going this long honestly.

I thought the 2014 show (my first) was good. The 2017 show, OTOH, was special. Extremely well chosen setlist and some inspired performances and arrangements. My friends, also longtime fans (if not heads), agreed.

Also, I hate that the goddamn Sid Smith book is nigh impossible to find. Our local library network doesn’t even have it!

yeah i saw 'em in '14 and the download released of a '17 show is way better than what i saw

Last year's show was fantastic!

the cheapest tickets are 80 euro by now for the 3rd of july, but i think i have to go. i have always liked them, esp. the first two albums, discipline and beat.

Current setlists look pretty cool, no doubt because Fripp settled (in every sense, probably) with Belew. Still not quite sure of Fripp's motivations - which, sure, may just be money - but the fact that the KC train keeps a rolling makes me think he's not going to stop any time soon. Fripp is 72, but playing sitting down behind speakers with headphones on has got to count for something!

there's still like 3/4ths of a new album in their setlist, here's hoping...

I mean as far as his motivations go...I guess it kinda goes without saying that every musician approaching a certain age is bound to go on a nostalgia tour at some point, even if they've insisted that they wouldn't? the cool thing about this new group is that in a way it's like every incarnation of Crimson rolled into one, willing to go back to much more than just Red, Larks 2, and the occasional Schizoid Man...that in itself is really a new thing for KC. they've always been a "stay at home if you wanna hear the old records" sort of band.

^ rollins seems like one of the few older musicians who has zero interest in reforming old bands

I guess it kinda goes without saying that every musician approaching a certain age is bound to go on a nostalgia tour at some point, even if they've insisted that they wouldn't? the cool thing about this new group is that in a way it's like every incarnation of Crimson rolled into one, willing to go back to much more than just Red, Larks 2, and the occasional Schizoid Man...that in itself is really a new thing for KC.

This is what makes the whole thing so interesting to me. It's 100% the opposite of "We've reunited the lineup from The One Album Everybody Likes and we're playing it front to back! Tickets are $300, $500 if you want a handshake and a photo beforehand!" Instead, he's put together an entirely new lineup featuring members from just about every era of KC, radically different from the lineups on any particular record, and re-arranged the tunes to suit the current players rather than attempting to mimic the studio versions.

I mean as far as his motivations go...I guess it kinda goes without saying that every musician approaching a certain age is bound to go on a nostalgia tour at some point

We're also talking about Fripp here, who went on a stubborn multi-year Fogerty-esque content strike while he was feuding with various labels.

rather than attempting to mimic the studio versions.

I dunno about this. The show I saw a few years ago was good but not that radical to my ears. The drummers have the most room to improvise, but they're not exactly busting the songs apart. I mean, even these players, there are too many people on stage to really mess around, imo. Certainly "Schizoid" was pretty much the album version to the note. Though I'm not sure if it all counts as nostalgia or not, actually; he's certainly doing no cheesy disservice to the band and its legacy. To the contrary, I think parting with Belew allowed him to remind people that there was a lot of good stuff in the '70s that gets often gets overlooked or steamrolled by "Larks"/"Red" and everything after.

Some of the reinterpretation is down the individual players; Tony Levin does some pretty radical stuff to Wetton and Lake's lines, especially in terms of the rhythmic concept. Levin's more of a jazz player than either of those two were, but he takes a lot of the blues and jazz elements the English bassists used right out of there.

Certainly "Schizoid" was pretty much the album version to the note.

This was definitely not the case in Boston last year.

Was it at all like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3028oDEKZo4

I mean, I guess there are solos in there, but I don't consider solos terribly "radical."

I’m conflicted because I would love to hear a group as talented as this open up more but clearly for Fripp, the arrangements matter most. Where the band delivers is on its ability to summon rich, voluminous power- crucial for any incarnation of Crim, but perhaps even more important for one at the late stage of its existence.

That's not the 7:20 album version to the note, come on!

OK, it was not "to the note," but it was not radically or even significantly different, other than the solos and other digressions, was it?

Like I said, I don't think a ship this big can turn on a dime, it's got to be close the album or it would all fall apart. Too many players.

The rhythmic feel is a little different and, yeah, there are the solos and digressions. I definitely wouldn't call it a radical reimagining, nor is that what I'd expect from King Crimson (of all bands); I just don't see it as mimicry of the studio versions, compared to what most rock bands do live.

Despite bringing aboard, as discussed above, the singer and guitarist from a KC cover band, who has the screaming schizoid man on his guitar. I mean, I don't expect much more either, but there were different eras that incorporated different degrees of improv (esp. when Muir was in the band), and this one has so much talent I'm surprised it hasn't tried to further more out. But it's all good.

i think the only thing I want from them that they're not doing right now is LTIA 6

most of these guys are playing with sheet music so no, there are not wild deviations. there are shows/tours that are just stronger than others though

the Radical Action set is incredible. dunno if I really need anything else from them. though I'd love to hear some Lizard stuff.

^ rollins seems like one of the few older musicians who has zero interest in reforming old bands

lol he had 2 bands and both of them had a revolving door of musicians

I think 'live in chicago' is a better set than Radical Action though RA is more like "starless and bible black" in that it comes across as a studio album.

lol he had 2 bands and both of them had a revolving door of musicians

Black Flag wasn't his band, it was Greg Ginn's. Rollins was their fourth vocalist.

The Rollins Band had one membership change (Andrew Weiss out, Melvin Gibbs in) between 1987 and 1997. Then he fired everybody, hired an existing band and re-named it the Rollins Band.

I was a big fan of the previous Live in Chicago, one of the sets with Belew from ... 2008? Something like that. I think the band claimed they were underrehearsed but I thought they kicked ass.

This is nuts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1w0vxQ-ueCI&index=3&list=PLXJtCSP_l25BpXDAVGkV2HQ9T2-MrtBcw

the Radical Action set is incredible. dunno if I really need anything else from them. though I'd love to hear some Lizard stuff.

― frogbs

most crimson lineups have tended to flame out a bit after their first tour, this one has gotten better. you should hear the chicago '17 set. they also do a good version of "fracture" - a little sad i didn't get to see them do that!

re-listening to chicago '17, jesus this is the best "easy money" ever. i mean better than "usa". better than central park '73.

i quite enjoyed the concert last night and was glad that now i have seen them with robert fripp who was quite in the background but of course in ploaces he added his special "circular" guitar sound from "discipline". "the court of the crimson king" is still one of the most emotionally devastating pieces of music in the world for me. besides that, yes there were three drummers and they had some nice interaction going on. one of them played the mellotron, i think. i hadn't realised before how wide the spectrum of king crimson was, the early melodic art rock with folkish singing, free jazzy parts, hard rocking stuff etc. it was pretty loud and i did not like the crescendoes (they made me think of godspeed, with much less silent-loud dynamics going on though). the lack of melodic inventiveness often seems to be covered up by instrumental masturbation. that was exactly the reason why they never were one of my fave bands. i very much liked the sax and especially the flute which is such an important element of early king crimson. tony levin's bass solo was phantastic. an amazing instrument. i was probably 50 meters away from the stage but the sound was huge! unfortunately they did not play "21st centutry schizoid man". the show lasted for about 3 hours with a 20 minute break. they were very much on time. at the end tony levin made a photo of the audience and we were invited to make a photo of the band. during the concert photos were forbidden according to a voice from tape which also wished us a joyful concert etc. this i found weird but even weirder that people clapped after that. to clap for an announcement from tape, wtf. the audience was mixed but more older (50+, 60+) than younger people, i'd say.

can't believe they've dropped 21st Century from the set list!

For Springsteen On Broadway cameras are likewise forbidden under penalty of seizure/expulsion, but they similarly allow everyone to take pictures at the end. The weird result is that the applause at the end is oddly muted, since everyone is taking pictures.

I finally read Bill Buford's autobiography, which was, as reviewed, quite good, and at times more of a deep-diving treatise than a memoir. He's remarkably well-listened, often as or even more aware of peers, competition and up and comers as he is his band mates, particularly the impenetrable Fripp. There's not much Yes in here, but lots of KC, and the book comes closer than most to answering the eternal Fripp question: "weirdo, genius or asshole." Spoiler: like many artists, he's all three!

Listened to some of Live In Vienna in the car today. Exceptionally good “Fracture” – and nice to hear Fripp do some soundscapes after a long time away from them.

KC have taken an interesting approach to Spotify - a bunch of their live albums are up, but none of the studio albums.

Currently streaming:

Epitaph (Live 1969)
Ladies of the Road (Live 1971/72)
The Nightwatch (Live at the Koncertbebouw, Amsterdam, November 1973)
Absent Lovers (Live in Montreal 1984)
VROOOM VROOOM (Live 1995/96)
Heavy ConstrucKtion (Live in Europe, 2000)
Live in Vienna (2016)
Live in Chicago (2017)
Radical Action to Unseat the Hold of Monkey Mind
Meltdown (Live in Mexico 2017)

on apple music too as it turns out

RF's always made a point about the band having a specific formation date, so happy 50th birthday to KC.