Rolling 2017 Thread on Race

question -- i am finding the silence of my white friends completely horrifying. what do i do?

Get new friends

send them a link to an interfaith vigil

they love those

links

Xp @ LL

I don't know. I think I can only tolerate fictional white people and the occasional ilxor right now. The non-Americans are okay too.

From my end I was all full of furious bluster and rage and it contributed to ruining my vacation and now I feel like I can't think about this anymore for a little while. I realize that option is totally white privilege.

i feel like a lot of people are choosing that not-helpful option
and i understand, and have probably engaged in self-preservation-motivated disengagement propped up by my privilege
it doesn't seem like an option at this point

sad to say but at this point i appreciate some silence ... whole hell of a lot better than a great deal of what i've seen on social media

i like to imagine that if people are silent that means they're listening

that's probably polyanna-ish

and of course who knows who they're listening to and what they're taking away from it

There is also that. I don't have anything to contribute that's new or helpful. I'm sorry if that comes across as complicit or disengaged.

these are the same answers i'm getting elsewhere when i asked the same question
idk what i expected, i guess i just wanted to voice my frustration at what appears to be toxic silence

some people seem afraid of "getting it wrong" and i get that
i don't want to get it wrong any more than anyone else does -- but stepping out on a limb and trying is valuable in this climate
who cares if you get it wrong, at least you tried

I felt like Tomboto was saying he'd previously done that prior to disengaging. sounds like you're saying some of your white friends have just outright ghosted since the incident?

flaming out doesn't help in the long run
maybe there is some long-acting carbs to fuel white people's ability to be engaged

with respect...I think there's a lot of presumption here

I think this is the post I keep returning to ITT from Dan:

At this point, it is not enough to denounce Trump. He is a lightning rod that is sucking up all of the attention and the space. These people are in our cities, extending and amplifying the poison inherent in American culture. We need to acknowledge that poison. We need to acknowledge that these people aren't a few fringe voices no one really pays attention to. Whenever they assemble, we must make sure they understand that we have heard their message and it is unwelcome. How you contribute to this is up to you; I can't speak to anyone's capability for protest and/or violence, nor do I think it is my place to tell you the most effective way to reject and counter this message. What I can say, what I feel in my bones, is that if we focus on elections to the detriment of responding directly to these groups, their message will win. If you look at these rolling threads over the past few years and see how so many of these situations have played out, their message is already winning. We shouldn't allow that to happen.

― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, August 14, 2017 11:35 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

simply put, saying "let's just ignore these Fringe weirdos, they're harmless little gnats that will go away and we'll take back the White House and...problem solved" is not going to cut it.

there are 9 White Nationalist rallies this weekend in major cities. can start by protesting at one of them if anybody is nearby.

Took a page from Shakey and signed up for Swing Left. It's the bare minimum.

i agree with that completely
How you contribute to this is up to you; I can't speak to anyone's capability for protest and/or violence, nor do I think it is my place to tell you the most effective way to reject and counter this message.
silence can be interpreted so many ways that it is not a valid counter-message

oops that was xp

https://www.facebook.com/events/266804640483421/

I am not sure if my temple is going to be represented at that just yet but I suspect so

The "March on Google" ones are all cancelled

Daily Stormer now hosted by... (wait for it)

Russia

er wait I take that back, looks like Cloudflare still has it? these fucking people.

Thanks for update Tombot

corporate responsibility: https://www.paypal.com/stories/us/paypals-aup-remaining-vigilant-on-hate-violence-intolerance

http://www.scpr.org/news/2017/08/16/74727/hollywood-forever-cemetery-to-remove-confederate-m/

Much of my point is that when the social contract unambiguously states that various minor, daily interactions where racist things occur are unacceptable, putting your head down and ignoring them is an understandable and sometimes valid response. That contract is broken right now; it will only be fixed if we assert it.

Basically, I'm asking everyone who hates the direction we are heading in to take on a level of discomfort in their interactions with other that they may have previously avoided. I'm not asking anyone to sacrifice or martyr themselves and I'm not asking for 100% full-on "SMASH RACISTS" behavior; I'm asking for people to tell those close to them or in their orbits who may express views that prop up the shitshow we're currently going through that they are not on board with it. I can't tell anyone else how to do that; part of the work we all need to do is to figure out how to have those conversations. The point of having those conversations is to reassert that what we are seeing right now is wrong. Asserting that what we are seeing is wrong is part of building a consensus around a grass-roots movement to combat it, in our daily interactions, through active protest, and in engagement with the civil process so we support putting people who will fight this in positions of power and exert political force on the people already in power until they feel it is in their best interests to listen to us.

I feel like you are much more cogent and coherent than I am right now (which is like pure 100% rage-space)

I'm seeing normies/civilians/non-activists/ whatever you want to call them take more interest in counter-fascist/racist demos and getting more outspoken every day. I hope it's not a blip.

Dan that is once again well-said and I recognize I need to do more in that arena so thank you for sharing your perspective.

Rage is fine. Anger is an energy. At some point, we need to put that energy to use; I'm suggesting how.

im mostly worried this will attract people to demonstrations thus more people towards highly charged and violent situations. for what end? to prove a point to someone you think is past reasoning with?

we should look at protests strategically. they should prove a point beyond "bad people are bad". there are a lot of voters just waiting to be picked up that may have detached themselves due to all the anger swirling about. perhaps the hyping up of extremes is another facet of our world being shaped more and more by the internet but the media and politicians are also responsible to a degree.

what should a protest accomplish? what should it highlight? people already know that nazis are bad. let's find systemic injustices, the everyday day-to-day injustices, and point them out. in the past they used system jamming like bus boycotts and diner sit ins. finding the day-to-day injustices, highlighting this to the media. marginalized groups have ready and willing allies that have privilege and access they can use for civil disobedience. imo disrupt the system itself.

man

WATCH: Full remarks from Susan Bro, mother of Charlottesville car attack victim Heather Heyer https://t.co/m3gkZDF6Ks

— NBC News (@NBCNews) August 16, 2017

people already know that nazis are bad.

do they?

people already know that nazis are bad.

you just got a weekend full of evidence to the contrary

xpost goddammit

this is kind of on a loop in my head
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCrABvZy8uc

his writing's not the greatest, but *respect knuckles*

Next 24 hours, every RT this gets, I put in a pot for @simonwiesenthal, @NAACP, @TransEquality and @splcenter, up to 0k. You know why.

— John Scalzi (@scalzi) August 16, 2017

thanks for your posts here DJP

Durham County gave Takiyah Thompson a 0K bond & charged her with 2 felony counts. Tell the DA to drop charges 9am-5pm: 919-808-3010 https://t.co/bhg9inBkXi

— Bree Newsome (@BreeNewsome) August 16, 2017

I lol'd

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHXWgFYUwAA56Fy.jpg

Basically, I'm asking everyone who hates the direction we are heading in to take on a level of discomfort in their interactions with other that they may have previously avoided. I'm not asking anyone to sacrifice or martyr themselves and I'm not asking for 100% full-on "SMASH RACISTS" behavior; I'm asking for people to tell those close to them or in their orbits who may express views that prop up the shitshow we're currently going through that they are not on board with it. I can't tell anyone else how to do that; part of the work we all need to do is to figure out how to have those conversations.

"take on a level of discomfort" otm, this is my feeling exactly. if you don't know how, ask, learn, then do

my friends!

let us witness a man who went on tv to do a bullshit segment and wound up speaking the truth

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/08/16/fox-news-invited-a-conservative-and-a-liberal-to-debate-confederate-statues-they-both-ripped-trump/

https://foucault.info/doc/documents/parrhesia/foucault-dt1-wordparrhesia-en-html

In the Greek conception of parrhesia, however, there does not seem to be a problem about the acquisition of the truth since such truth-having is guaranteed by the possession of certain moral qualities:when someone has certain moral qualities, then that is the proof that he has access to truth—and vice-versa. The "parrhesiastic game" presupposes that the parrhesiastes is someone who has the moral qualities which are required, first, to know the truth, and secondly, to convey such truth to others.

If there is a kind of "proof" of the sincerity of the parrhesiastes, it is his courage. The fact that a speaker says something dangerous — different from what the majority believes— is a strong indication that he is a parrhesiastes.

To summarize the foregoing, parrhesia is a kind of verbal activity where the speaker has a specific relation to truth through frankness, a certain relationship to his own life through danger, a certain type of relation to himself or other people through criticism (self-criticism or criticism of other people), and a specific relation to moral law through freedom and duty. More precisely, parrhesia is a verbal activity in which a speaker expresses his personal relationship to truth, and risks his life because he recognizes truth-telling as a duty to improve or help other people (as well as himself). In parrhesia, the speaker uses his freedom and chooses frankness instead of persuasion, truth instead of falsehood or silence, the risk of death instead of life and security, criticism instead of flattery, and moral duty instead of self-interest and moral apathy.

sounds like rap music tbh

yeah i'm certain i've read some academic paper or other that goes for that line

what the fuck @CNN pic.twitter.com/b9F6rcmXTa

— Aeth Sbramson (@thetomzone) August 17, 2017

I don't see that this has been posted

https://sojo.net/articles/our-white-friends-desiring-be-allies