brexit negging when yr mandate is is trash: or further chronicles of a garbage-fire

yes, to be clearly i'm not really actually advocating a "pure" helicopter drop (in which none of the support went to banks, and they dodged collapse only via the means of "trickle-up"), except as thought experiment for better solutions at the time -- there was an actual urgency in late 2008, as widespread bank collapse is bad and shd probably not be encouraged just to stick it to banksters (jailing them is a better way of sticking it to them)

(googled "trickle-up" to see if i'd just invented it: sadly it already exists, tho not at all widelry enough IMO)

as a means of replacing vanished demand (which has still not really come back) it would definitely have worked better than quantitave easing, with the added advantage of actually being a progressive policy

I find The Economy such a mysterious + nebulous + headfucking thing to think about, but always get thoroughly disappointed when ideas of: let's reset everyone's overdrafts + have a free luxury piss-up at the banks expense, turn out to be damned thought experiments!

otm

I hope Sarah Champion enjoyed the positive shout out in the article under discussion .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/16/sarah-champion-quits-jeremy-corbyns-shadow-cabinet-warning-pakistani/

her concerns sound legitimate

I wonder if there are any other types of people raping and exploiting white girls, or if there are any non-white girls being raped and exploited in Britain. Maybe Sarah Champion could use her newly freed-up time to compile some figures.

I guess this endorsement was inevitable:

This is very sad @SarahChampionMP is an independent minded and impressive MP who is needed in Shadow Caninet https://t.co/zHuudwqvrA

— Kate Hoey (@KateHoeyMP) August 16, 2017

Champion seems like someone who is intelligent and capable in a lot of ways but who also has painfully bad political judgement?

Anybody who thinks they can have constructive engagement with the Murdoch press is an idiot imo

In happier news, Tulip Siddiq is the fourth Labour MP to sign up for this: https://www.labourfreemovement.org/who/

(I guess Champion might sign it herself now that she is no longer in the shadow cabinet?)

Anybody who thinks they can have constructive engagement with the Murdoch press is an idiot imo

― put your hands on the car and get ready to die (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:18 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

pls to print on all labour party membership cards issued forthwith

Corbyn defending SC (I didn't get to see the video as it wouldn't load so 2nd hand) was not a good look.

Not sure why any member of the Shadow Cabinet would write for any paper bar Mirror or Guardian (and even then wrt the latter). There ought to be a ban and any MP writing for them should be warned that its going in the deselection file.

... would you write 'Mirror' and 'Guardian' specifically into the ban?

Bar, Andrew. Apart from.

oops yes i missed a 0, i misremembered and input 50 billion not 500 billion, so yes, 7.6 thou each: a wildly stimulative jolt in the reaches of the market which have instead been so horribly squeezed (also the reaches of the market least inclined to pop it away into savings)

― mark s, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 9:00 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In australia when the GFC hit the Labor gov. gave every adult earning under $100K a cheque for $900, plus invested billions in rapid infrastructure projects, and I believe Australia was the only western country that avoided recession.

Helped that China was buying Australia's rocks at furious rate.

Definitely: anything we cant prostitute to the US we will flog to china

Corbyn defending SC (I didn't get to see the video as it wouldn't load so 2nd hand) was not a good look.

A lot of Corbyn's current rhetoric around free movement is extremely concerning. He has stood up against racism and supported migrants in the past but his most recent pronouncements are extremely concerning and risk legitimising racism, if they don't already.

Not sure why any member of the Shadow Cabinet would write for any paper bar Mirror or Guardian (and even then wrt the latter). There ought to be a ban and any MP writing for them should be warned that its going in the deselection file.

Ultimately you need to preach to the non-converted but virtually anything in the Sun is going to backfire on them enormously. An outright ban or deselection threats for talking to the press would only make things worse.

why do you think it would make things worse?

Yasmin Quersgi sounded like a Labour Trump about it this morning on Today - asked direct questions about the current apparent trend identified in the SC article and whether we/the police/the law should pay attention to it she just repeated that child abuse was wrong and done by a great many people on all sides. Humphries audibly frustrated by her inability to answer a very specific and tightly worded question.

Think we should concentrate on ~men~ because that seems to be the group doing the abuse.

She didn't even seem to want to be drawn on that division.

Naturally the anti-left hacks who demanded Thornberry's resignation from the SC over ThoseFuckingEnglandFlags are concern-trolling over Champion's as evidence of Labour censorship or stifling of internal debate.

why do you think it would make things worse?

Corbyn ban on talking to the free press because Stalinism etc. Obviously this shit doesn't wash with a load of voters any more anyway but a straightforward "don't be a fucking moron and talk to a paper that wants to destroy you" guideline should be enough.

I don't know that there's any sensible answer to questions about an apparent trend - any conclusions anybody wants to draw about cultural motivations are going to be racist generalizations as far as I can see. As suzy says, I don't see very much brow-furrowing from MPs about what it is in the culture of men that makes them abusers

yes edicts are not going to be effective esp with the plp in the state it is, but I think shutting the papers out & starving them of credibility is the only longterm plan

I think Matt has it right, public moral pressure is plenty. I think it wouldn't kill the party to be more honest about its relationship to e.g. The Sun rather than continuing to pretend it's some neutral arbiter of the totality of working class opinion that can be courted

incidentally, 5 Live had Guido Fucking Fawkes on last night, presented as a contextless summarizer of the Sarah Champion story, which was one of the most blood-boilingly fucked up things i've heard from them yet

There's been a cross-party attack on The Sun article from over 100 MPs at least, as well as a joint complaint from Muslim and Jewish councils. Racist cunt Kavanagh on his usual 'sorry if you loony lefties were offended' defensive.

Previously, I thought Sarah Champion was brighter than this (mainly because she was ON IT in the election).

Cliques of grown men who hang out in take-aways and town centres looking for teen girl pumpum are present wherever there are men, and they always pick girls who (in their eyes) are other/lesser to them. My late vice-detective uncle had plenty of experience busting men like these.

Novara's Ash Sarkar has been great on Twitter about these specific incident(s) and the way they're reported in general including relating it to her experiences growing up and clubbing amidst exploitative and predatory (mostly white) older men.

That was definitely going on (but so too was the phenomenon of school leavers/ambitious sixth-formers getting writing/music industry jobs and with them, graduate/30yo boyfriends).

i blame the culture

A lot of Corbyn's current rhetoric around free movement is extremely concerning. He has stood up against racism and supported migrants in the past but his most recent pronouncements are extremely concerning and risk legitimising racism, if they don't already.

Like I've no doubt he doesn't believe a lot of the pronouncements (it hasn't translated into votes in parliament which is the real test) and they are being made to seem as being distorted by the media. Dangerous game.

ogmor otm their influence has been dented somewhat and they are not on Labour's side at all and the public that consumes that stuff knows it too. I don't its Stalinism so much. The papers would scream around Labour not wanting to connect to the public - but Labour have the muscle on the ground and social media game to run more targeted ads and the like and you can spin the media as an establishment that want to grind people down. It might also generate an open conversation about how damaging the papers and their spread of disinformation has been.

btw, the news that Khan and Burnham might not even have speeches at conference (in favour of activists) was good as well. Has the additional effect of sticking it to the garbage centrist MPs that still need to be kicked.

there won't be a deselection list -- even if mandatory reselection for every MP is reintroduced at conference, deselection is up to local parties, not a central body

and there isn't a central body it can be reliably centralised *to* as long as the PLP and the NEC are so at odds with momentum, which has anyway grown and thrived on a considerable measure of decentralisation: the reanimation of local parties, and -- alongside picking up a lot of new members, esp,younger members -- the return of a lot of members estranged in the nu-lab years. the logic of decentralisation will continue to leave space for maverick MPs who are also good or popular constituency MPs

long story short: frank field will still be be lab MP for birkenhead in 3017

not if Van Helsing finds him

FF reminds me of Barry "I'm not a lobbyist, just Chairman of a lobbying company" Sheerman. He's been on the graft and generally been a slimy professional-politician since '79 in my region. Nobody has a good word to say about him, yet his majority gets bigger every year!

being a Tory who wandered into the wrong party by mistake gets confused as being a principled maverick

We must launch a new party, called the Milkshake Duck Party, to take votes from awful Labour!

[5 mins later]

Why does the Left hate ducks?

— Dan Davies (@dsquareddigest) August 18, 2017

^^^best summary of centrist aka jolyonspasm twitter over the last few days

My views on ducks and left politics are well-documented, fuck this douche

kill the bill

lol

the jolyon that fucks windmills is some guy

There was a genuine Jolyon being all sadface about the Owen Jones piece on a centrish pal's FB and I had to stifle a giggle.

even if mandatory reselection for every MP is reintroduced at conference, deselection is up to local parties, not a central body

But I think this kind of move will push toward a tighter scrutiny on what the likes Frank Field or Neil Coyle are doing. Again if more people and the composition of local parties change so that the agenda of the leadership and members is aligned it should be harder and may bring about deselections if they continue to hold members in contempt.

I guess what I am saying is its not hopeless lets see how it develops.

So McDonalds workers are going on strike - a great day and again, Labour has made this kind of thing happen. Really important to have that support for strikes.

R.I.P Wes Streeting

I support McDonald’s workers who have balloted to strike for the first time in the UK over fair pay and conditions. https://t.co/TabOD9s95Q pic.twitter.com/7hL9dKBXX6

— Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) August 18, 2017

In tomorrow's Mail, Tory MPs demand Big Ben is used to bong us out of EU at midnight on 31 March 2019 #Brexit 🇬🇧🕰

— John Stevens (@johnestevens) August 18, 2017

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/aug/18/neoliberalism-the-idea-that-changed-the-world
This is probably rookie shit to some of you wise heads on here, but I found this long piece on Hayek vs Keynes and the progression of Neoliberalism from an idea to the only prevalent system, a right good read.