brexit negging when yr mandate is is trash: or further chronicles of a garbage-fire

I can't believe the government actually had the brass neck to pitch those Brexit proposals today.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sun-muslim-problem-investigation-jewish-islamic-ipso-trevor-kavanagh-nazi-propaganda-tabloid-news-uk-a7894231.html?amp

I hope Sarah Champion enjoyed the positive shout out in the article under discussion .

“Thanks to former equalities chief Trevor Phillips, and Labour MPs such as Rotherham’s Sarah Champion, it is acceptable to say Muslims are a specific rather than a cultural problem.

Were the UK to crash again, its government no longer has the political capital nor the fiscal headroom to save the financial system. And with interest rates scraping along the bottom, the Bank of England has barely any firepower left. Ten years of political fudge and failed austerity has left Britain’s state machinery tapped out.

Another good Chakrabortty piece today, but I bitterly concluded that another crash wouldn't be such a bad thing at all.

You're alright, we'd have to take you

Anthony Barnett‏ just tweeted this "Nothing like this has happened in 323 years" graph from the FT that shows we a bright future!

https://www.ft.com/__origami/service/image/v2/images/raw/http%3A%2F%2Fcom.ft.imagepublish.prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2F3714a79e-81fe-11e7-a4ce-15b2513cb3ff?source=next&quality=highest&width=1180

Chakrabortty also makes the good point about the banking sector gob-shiteing about how much they tip up into the Exchequer, with a collective amnesia about the 1.3 tr freebie they got after the last crash.

If I did a graph on how close I am to the absolute limit of my overdraft in the last ten years, it wouldn't be much different from the one above. But I get the feeling I wouldn't be alone there.

sorry for the chain-posting, five shit posts for the price of one on offer today!

No, that's some good stuff, thanks.

My friend is off to Scotland and just texted me to say Jeremy Corbyn is on his train (Lake District/Cumbria events obv).

First class or on the deck?

sorry for the chain-posting, five shit posts for the price of one on offer today!

this is the kind of blitz spirit which will see britain thrive after brexit imo

"five Trevor Francises' for the price of one, even allowing for the liquidation of the Bank of England."

if QE in 2008-09 had been a 1.3tr helicopter drop we wouldn't be where we are

Paul Krugman the Nobel Prize winner for Economics stated in his New York Times column that "Mr Brown and Alistair Darling, the Chancellor of the Exchequer have defined the character of the worldwide rescue effort, with other wealthy nations playing catch-up." He also stated that "Luckily for the world economy,... Gordon Brown and his officials are making sense,... And they may have shown us the way through this crisis.

well initially it was more of a £500 bn helicopter drop wasn't it?

thinking of some of jingoistic claptrap coming from the Mail + Telegraph + Farage about that latest Nolan travesty. It reminds me of a Boss who called a meeting after the last banking crash, which was just basically a "the whip's in my hand now + you're lucky to have a job" type arsekicking. But with a similar ropy grasp of history as Nolan he said something like: "this is the biggest threat to the UK since the Nazi's were amassing their tanks on the beaches of Dunkirk".

in an actual real full-on £500 bn helicopter drop, everyone in the entire UK population wd have received c.£750 each if i'm counting correctly

i worked it out (using country meters) that we would have all received £7623.22 each! have you missed a nought on billion or did I add one?

oops yes i missed a 0, i misremembered and input 50 billion not 500 billion, so yes, 7.6 thou each: a wildly stimulative jolt in the reaches of the market which have instead been so horribly squeezed (also the reaches of the market least inclined to pop it away into savings)

The Brown bailout involved taking major stakes in the banks, and wouldn't have been a disaster if Osbourne hadn't decided to start selling them off at a fraction of what they could have been worth.

A helicopter drop wouldn't have been much use if half the banks in the UK had collapsed, but if the government can find that much money at short notice then perhaps they aren't telling the whole truth about what they can and can't afford the rest of the time.

yes, to be clearly i'm not really actually advocating a "pure" helicopter drop (in which none of the support went to banks, and they dodged collapse only via the means of "trickle-up"), except as thought experiment for better solutions at the time -- there was an actual urgency in late 2008, as widespread bank collapse is bad and shd probably not be encouraged just to stick it to banksters (jailing them is a better way of sticking it to them)

(googled "trickle-up" to see if i'd just invented it: sadly it already exists, tho not at all widelry enough IMO)

as a means of replacing vanished demand (which has still not really come back) it would definitely have worked better than quantitave easing, with the added advantage of actually being a progressive policy

I find The Economy such a mysterious + nebulous + headfucking thing to think about, but always get thoroughly disappointed when ideas of: let's reset everyone's overdrafts + have a free luxury piss-up at the banks expense, turn out to be damned thought experiments!

otm

I hope Sarah Champion enjoyed the positive shout out in the article under discussion .

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/16/sarah-champion-quits-jeremy-corbyns-shadow-cabinet-warning-pakistani/

her concerns sound legitimate

I wonder if there are any other types of people raping and exploiting white girls, or if there are any non-white girls being raped and exploited in Britain. Maybe Sarah Champion could use her newly freed-up time to compile some figures.

I guess this endorsement was inevitable:

This is very sad @SarahChampionMP is an independent minded and impressive MP who is needed in Shadow Caninet https://t.co/zHuudwqvrA

— Kate Hoey (@KateHoeyMP) August 16, 2017

Champion seems like someone who is intelligent and capable in a lot of ways but who also has painfully bad political judgement?

Anybody who thinks they can have constructive engagement with the Murdoch press is an idiot imo

In happier news, Tulip Siddiq is the fourth Labour MP to sign up for this: https://www.labourfreemovement.org/who/

(I guess Champion might sign it herself now that she is no longer in the shadow cabinet?)

Anybody who thinks they can have constructive engagement with the Murdoch press is an idiot imo

― put your hands on the car and get ready to die (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, August 16, 2017 5:18 PM (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

pls to print on all labour party membership cards issued forthwith

Corbyn defending SC (I didn't get to see the video as it wouldn't load so 2nd hand) was not a good look.

Not sure why any member of the Shadow Cabinet would write for any paper bar Mirror or Guardian (and even then wrt the latter). There ought to be a ban and any MP writing for them should be warned that its going in the deselection file.

... would you write 'Mirror' and 'Guardian' specifically into the ban?

Bar, Andrew. Apart from.

oops yes i missed a 0, i misremembered and input 50 billion not 500 billion, so yes, 7.6 thou each: a wildly stimulative jolt in the reaches of the market which have instead been so horribly squeezed (also the reaches of the market least inclined to pop it away into savings)

― mark s, Wednesday, 16 August 2017 9:00 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

In australia when the GFC hit the Labor gov. gave every adult earning under $100K a cheque for $900, plus invested billions in rapid infrastructure projects, and I believe Australia was the only western country that avoided recession.

Helped that China was buying Australia's rocks at furious rate.

Definitely: anything we cant prostitute to the US we will flog to china

Corbyn defending SC (I didn't get to see the video as it wouldn't load so 2nd hand) was not a good look.

A lot of Corbyn's current rhetoric around free movement is extremely concerning. He has stood up against racism and supported migrants in the past but his most recent pronouncements are extremely concerning and risk legitimising racism, if they don't already.

Not sure why any member of the Shadow Cabinet would write for any paper bar Mirror or Guardian (and even then wrt the latter). There ought to be a ban and any MP writing for them should be warned that its going in the deselection file.

Ultimately you need to preach to the non-converted but virtually anything in the Sun is going to backfire on them enormously. An outright ban or deselection threats for talking to the press would only make things worse.

why do you think it would make things worse?

Yasmin Quersgi sounded like a Labour Trump about it this morning on Today - asked direct questions about the current apparent trend identified in the SC article and whether we/the police/the law should pay attention to it she just repeated that child abuse was wrong and done by a great many people on all sides. Humphries audibly frustrated by her inability to answer a very specific and tightly worded question.

Think we should concentrate on ~men~ because that seems to be the group doing the abuse.

She didn't even seem to want to be drawn on that division.

Naturally the anti-left hacks who demanded Thornberry's resignation from the SC over ThoseFuckingEnglandFlags are concern-trolling over Champion's as evidence of Labour censorship or stifling of internal debate.

why do you think it would make things worse?

Corbyn ban on talking to the free press because Stalinism etc. Obviously this shit doesn't wash with a load of voters any more anyway but a straightforward "don't be a fucking moron and talk to a paper that wants to destroy you" guideline should be enough.

I don't know that there's any sensible answer to questions about an apparent trend - any conclusions anybody wants to draw about cultural motivations are going to be racist generalizations as far as I can see. As suzy says, I don't see very much brow-furrowing from MPs about what it is in the culture of men that makes them abusers

yes edicts are not going to be effective esp with the plp in the state it is, but I think shutting the papers out & starving them of credibility is the only longterm plan

I think Matt has it right, public moral pressure is plenty. I think it wouldn't kill the party to be more honest about its relationship to e.g. The Sun rather than continuing to pretend it's some neutral arbiter of the totality of working class opinion that can be courted

incidentally, 5 Live had Guido Fucking Fawkes on last night, presented as a contextless summarizer of the Sarah Champion story, which was one of the most blood-boilingly fucked up things i've heard from them yet