Free Speech and Creepy Liberalism

Obtaining a liberal arts degree must have been a lot more fun during the psychoanalysis era.

As history has proved, when you criticize books people stop writing bad ones.

― President Keyes, Monday, August 7, 2017 12:45 PM (seven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean, i think the purpose of criticism is kind of to enhance the quality of art created at some level, that you can elevate the conversation around it. its not entirely crazy

Like claiming the purpose of an arsehole is dangleberries

People like the author of that review seem to lack tolerance and openness. They are strident and dogmatic. Which is fine! Another way to be. But maybe literary criticism is not for them.

so just from that article it sounds like the book is actually anti-racism and the critical review took excerpts out of context where racist characters were sharing their opinions - something the book challenges. it's not just a free speech issue here - it's also an idiot reader issue.

― Mordy, Monday, August 7, 2017 1:42 PM (six hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

im willing to believe there's more wrong w/ it from a quick skim, i mean good intentions are 100% not a sign that something is safe from *coughs* problematic writing. i mean, any book that is "about racism" & some of the "races" are animals is probably gonna have some eyebrow-raising moments

i think many of the ppl complaining about this stuff seem more invested in the high school level power dynamics of it, but i think its prolly a bit much to assume that the book is thoughtfully written

i mean the real problem is ppl have no faith in criticism as an art, its too bad the original 9000 word blog post is so poorly written as criticism because if true theres a way to make these points via PERSUASION

Like everything that drew me to studying Englisj is the opposite of how these people are. They don't analyze or explore racism in literature as much as they just try to enforce certain rules of conduct with an aim to minimizing "harm" the texts might cause. They see literature as a species of propaganda and they are afraid of it. They don't really believe in literature because they don't believe that anything can transcend ideology.

Not that this YA book transcends anything but there is probably some ambiguity there, even some failures that can be instructive. But again that's criticism. What's going on in that review is condemnation.

im willing to believe there's more wrong w/ it from a quick skim

^ what happens when you read too much twitter ppl be aware shunning twitter saves minds

I couldn't have been the person interviewing the teen blogger who wasn't going to read it because someone told her not to.

There would have been spluttering frustration and trying to explain to the kid why that's not how they should approach things.

shunning twitter saves minds

but where else can I bait a world class rapper into getting upset over a 140 character insult

Outside fashionable nightclubs and restaurants

LAX

Lots of places

I'm not saying Twitter isn't terrible.

They don't really believe in literature because they don't believe that anything can transcend ideology.

― Treeship, Monday, August 7, 2017 8:28 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

...nothing can transcend ideology

damn, glad that's sorted.

^ what happens when you read too much twitter ppl be aware shunning twitter saves minds

― Mordy, Monday, August 7, 2017 8:37 PM (fifty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

"Condescending pseud" isn't any smarter than your generalizations about twitter discourse dipshit

"The book must be good because the person criticizing it is dumb"

They don't really believe in literature because they don't believe that anything can transcend ideology.

― Treeship, Monday, August 7, 2017

You're forbidding complicated reactions to art with attitudes like this, straight boy.

Reading her piece it's obvious she seems to lack some kind of measured critical tools & misunderstands the function of characters but Its still 100% possible or even likely that it's ideologically fucked up, how is that even controversial

seems like you've got both sides of the argument sorted, everybody else you can take off for the night

treeship otm

Say what you mean and stop being a punk

treeship otm

― k3vin k., Monday, August 7, 2017 9:44 PM (seven seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The fuck he is

His intentions are fine; I have a problem with "transcend."

People confuse "reading critically" with "putting one's sexual and racial politics under the bed, locked up with a Komodo dragon guarding them."

Alfred otm

yeesh, y'all

Reading her piece it's obvious she seems to lack some kind of measured critical tools & misunderstands the function of characters but Its still 100% possible or even likely that it's ideologically fucked up, how is that even controversial

― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, August 7, 2017 10:41 PM (three minutes ago)

dude it doesn't matter. this isn't a 10th grader's book report. people don't read 9000 words to be told what they already know. a little insight isn't much to ask for

That's literally what I said ? That her review sucks

When you mostly write in 140 characters you start to think in 140 characters. Could be good could be bad who are we to say.

My objection was to mordy's suggestion that this entire thing was the result of an "idiot reader" problem... it's completely possible there's an underlying fucked up dynamic to the book major critics missed of which this clusterfuck is a symptom, just bc the woman can't articulate it well doesn't mean there's not some truth to it.

dude no one said the book must be good because the reviewer is dumb. no one here has read the book or plans to. we're just saying the reviewer is dumb.

When you mostly write in 140 characters you start to think in 140 characters. Could be good could be bad who are we to say.

― Mordy, Monday, August 7, 2017 9:53 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I spent most of the last five years living off written pieces for like eight difft publications dumbass

Well you certainly think and write like an intellectual.

dude no one said the book must be good because the reviewer is dumb. no one here has read the book or plans to. we're just saying the reviewer is dumb.

― k3vin k., Monday, August 7, 2017 9:55 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Again responding to the idiot reader allegation, saying that's jumping to conclusions, no problem w the idiot writer allegation

Well you certainly think and write like an intellectual.

― Mordy, Monday, August 7, 2017 9:57 PM (eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You definitely have a narrow grasp of the conversation. & don't read my writing so why make it personal every time I disagree w you?

the idiot reader comment i think referred to her inability to recognize a literary construct known as "characters", which you yourself pointed out

"Transcend" was a bad word to use. I typed that in a sad pizzeria after a date cancelled on me. I just meant that artworks aren't always strictly reducible to the ideas they appear to be promoting. Is Madame Bovary the origin of the sexist "bored housewife" trope or is it a proto-feminist work that deals sympathetically with the limitations society imposed on women, even on their most private aspirations? It's obviously both of these things and it's way more.

Xp Alfred

this isn't a 10th grader's book report.

― k3vin k., Monday, August 7, 2017 8:50 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

all literary/media criticism is an attempt to monetize one's English class homework

The Ballad of the Sad Pizzeria

Treesh, if you're going on a date, don't pick the sad pizzeria. This is 101. We're here to help you.

No we weren't going there. I went there after she cancelled. I burned my mouth.

The gay thread hasn't been this tumescent in months.

Pizzeria Blueno

the moral of the story is sometimes i write my ilx posts in haste and i want to transcend accountability for that fact.

I feel like it's unfair that we poke more fun at posters who choose to communicate in paragraphs, with context, than at those who can barely commit to anything more than one-line snark attacks. But that's my anecdata, I haven't done the rigor.