'Oranges & Lemons' by XTC: Classic or Dud

I do love bands that inspire such radically different takes on their material:

PaulTMA says "Bungalow" is one of Colin's best, whereas I rate it as possibly his absolute worst (along with "Smartest Monkeys" and "War Dance").

Jon and Turrican, both of whose opinions I quite respect, say "Leisure" is garbage whereas I think it's a light bit of fluff.

Tarfumes suggests side 3 of ES should be replaced, but I adore the sheer oddness of "Melt The Guns" and especially "It's Nearly Africa".

But I think we all agree that XTC's b-sides are a treasure trove - I reckon I could make a double LP as good as any of their proper LPs.

I think I don't know any xtc bsides other than dear god! Which means I have some good prime era xtc to dig into at some point.

As a US teenager I owned the short version of English Settlement so it's hard for me to remember that those 'extra' songs I never knew til the CD are not actually bsides.

'Extrovert' is one of my favourite XTC songs! Such a catchy chorus. Also love 'Happy Families', but which it had been done more like the janglier early version.

*wish, rather.

The bonus tracks on Mummer ('Jump', 'Gold', 'Toys', 'Desert Island') are as good as anything on the album itself, and better than some of the lesser tracks on the LP.

Amendment: I know whatever b-sides were on Rag & Bone Buffet

"Red Brick Dream," a Big Express b-side, is one of my favorite XTC songs.

I do love bands that inspire such radically different takes on their material

I can't think of any band that inspires it to such an extent as XTC either. Made for an interesting tracks poll (albeit with an obvious number 1, that happens to be smack in the middle of their discography)

Turrican sez:
'Extrovert' is one of my favourite XTC songs! Such a catchy chorus. Also love 'Happy Families', but which it had been done more like the janglier early version.
The bonus tracks on Mummer ('Jump', 'Gold', 'Toys', 'Desert Island') are as good as anything on the album itself, and better than some of the lesser tracks on the LP.

Yes, exactly. Incidentally, "Mummer" is my least favorite of the Virgin years - not because it's bad, but it's pastoral vibe requires me to be in a specific mood.

Οὖτις sez:
I can't think of any band that inspires it to such an extent as XTC either.

I would say The Fall's work gets similar love/hate reactions from their fans.

English Settlement, Oranges & Lemons, and Nonsuch are all double albums.

oh yeah, I often forget that O&L is a double - to me it feels about the same length as Skylarking

agree about the English Settlement B-sides...some of those are among my favorite XTC tunes. particularly "Tissue Tigers" and "The World is Full of Angry Young Men". "Leisure" pretty much bites it, I don't know how that one made the album. unless that was just Andy trying to get one really abrasive and not-very-likable tune on the disc, as he seems to like to do.

'Instant Tunes' ... there's an early one that rules!

Also: 'Chain of Command', 'Don't Lose Your Temper' ...

side issue: the internet claims the word is "tinsel" but for years I genuinely thought the 'My Bird Performs' lyric was ""a different kind of tits will decorate my tree". Which does actually fit with the concept.

oh yeah Instant Tunes rules

I've always genuinely liked 'Leisure' and feel it does accurately convey the misery of being/feeling redundant - love the line "I've forgotten how to use my legs to invade the pitch!" in relation to playing a video game

As a US teenager I owned the short version of English Settlement so it's hard for me to remember that those 'extra' songs I never knew til the CD are not actually bsides.

― or at night (Jon not Jon), Tuesday, July 25, 2017 3:52 PM (thirty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

fwiw, the full double-LP version came out in the US around 1984-85, whenever they signed to Geffen, who reissued their entire back catalog on LP and cassette. I remember hunting around for an import only to easily find a US copy with all the tracks.

OK, so I'm listening to "Oranges + Lemons" right now and it's, er, not floating my boat. "President Kill"? Jesus Christ, that song is garbage.

Also forgot that I've never liked "The Loving".

see "The Loving" is a song I should adore bc of the descending Beatles-esque melody but besides the refrain it's so phoned in.

Yes, it's trite.

'Here Comes President Kill Again' has that neat production idea of having shitloads of reverb on the kick drum but leaving the snare completely dry - but the song itself? Meh.

idk all these songs sounded really good to me when i was 13 and bought this album for the first time
i didn't like "king for a day" very much but it was my first XTC album and one of the first albums i bought without knowing anything about it. i saw them on mtv and liked "scarecrow people"
i was really into activism at the time
https://youtu.be/AI8MalyCCGU

Mu English Settlement was a cassette which definitely preceded the geffen era
I also imprinted on a vinyl Black Sea which had significantly fewer tracks

'Scarecrow People' has some bizarre chord changes and weird choices of notes at times in the vocal melody.

"Red Brick Dream," a Big Express b-side, is one of my favorite XTC songs.

― flappy bird, Tuesday, July 25, 2017 9:12 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hell yes, my absolute favourite XTC song

I like it, it's okay.

wait back up Black Sea has more tracks on the CD?

I like this plain acoustic performance more than the effects-drenched studio version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoj9eIeolWI

Well more tracks than my vinyl did. Looking it up, I guess those really are bside bonus tracks (smokeless zone, somnambulist and... the other one)

ah, thanks

Black Sea goes in my 'how one ought to play electric guitar' folder

wait back up Black Sea has more tracks on the CD?

― sleeve, Tuesday, July 25, 2017 10:11 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Only bonus tracks, so stuff like 'The Somnambulist', 'Smokeless Zone', 'Don't Lose Your Temper' - otherwise my UK vinyl has the same amount of tracks as the album on CD. Jon not Jon might have a different vinyl issue.

(xpost)

Having said that, Black Sea is a pretty long album even without the bonus tracks... almost 50 minutes, which is long for the time.

I realised recently that Black Sea is my favourite ever XTC album, bar none.

I have to agree

I've only kept/like less than half of it's songs (6 to be exact) so no

Yeah, I taped Black Sea for a friend, he supplied me the C90. Got quite stroppy when the tape clicked off during 'Nihilon' I mean whoa I didn't make the record unh..

Every track is a killer from 'Respectable Street' to 'Travels in Nihilon' ... the most complete LP they made until Skylarking, which I'm a bit sick of these days.

xpost:

What, really Shakey? Which ones?

Respectable Street
Generals and Majors
No Language in Our Lungs
Towers of London
Burning With Optimism's Flames
Sgt Rock (Is Going to Help Me)

"No Language in Our Lungs" is my favorite XTC track and precisely how electric guitars should sound.

All great, but you don't like 'Rocket from a Bottle' or 'Paper and Iron'!?

(xpost:)

'No Language in Our Lungs' is one of my favourite XTC lyrics, and excellent middle 8.

Black Sea > Skylarking > Nonsuch > Chips from the Chocolate Fireball > The Big Express > Mummer (with bonus tracks) > Drums and Wires > Apple Venus > English Settlement > Oranges & Lemons > Mummer (without bonus tracks) > White Music > Go 2 > Wasp Star

Otm 'language' middle eight is amazing

I find it fascinating how differently people hear this band's tracks than I do. For example:

"Red Brick Dream," a Big Express b-side, is one of my favorite XTC songs.

― flappy bird, Tuesday, July 25, 2017 9:12 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Hell yes, my absolute favourite XTC song

I've never thought about this song once while it's not playing.

And to go back to O&L, my own example of this is "Miniature Sun", a song I love but I've never really heard anyone here say a good word about

That's a good one, but the dated synth horns hold it back a bit.

Miniature Sun is one of my absolute favorite XTC songs, and one that saves the album for me (its follower Chalkhills & Children being another).

O&L overall has always seemed overly labored to me. To say nothing about the production, I find that the songs themselves aren't generally very memorable/hummable/emotionally engaging (2 above being big exceptions). When I first heard it, I thought it sounded inappropriately bright and garish, especially compared to Skylarking. Now, I just find it busy & a little contrived. If you listen in, there's a lot to appreciate, but IMO Big Express was a better execution of essentially the same writing and production perspectives.

Big Express was a better execution of essentially the same writing and production perspectives.

Yes!! But the production was kinder - I think O&L was using the most 'modern' techniques which, of course, didn't age well. But also the idea behind "This World Over" is so much more elegantly expressed than "President Kill", same with "Seagulls Screaming Kiss Her" vs "Miniature Sun".

"The Big Express" has always been one of my favorites, not the least because it was my introduction to the band.

We should stop saying this or that technological innovation did or did not age well or is "dated." Technology by nature becomes obsolete. Yet no one says electric guitars tuned a certain way sound "dated."

If, however, the drums are programmed ineptly, that's another question, a valid one.

oh yeah "All You Pretty Girls" and "I Bought Myself a Liarbird" are in my top 5 XTC songs. Never understood the indifference towards TBE.

and "I Remember the Sun."