Because the notion that women "be" still influences the way we think about female artists, they've mostly been canonized as personalities or essences, not makers of things.
And yet still no room for Carla Bley on the list. And if you're gonna pick just one trans person (Against Me! - really?), how about Wendy Carlos? Programming analog synths in the 70s > writing 4/4 punk rock songs.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:18 (six years ago) link
The go-to for anyone who doesn't actually rate Björk.
I disagree vehemently. There are strong arguments as to why any of Post, Homogenic, or Vespertine would be Bjork's best album and it does her career no disservice to pick any of them for a list like this. It would be even better if both Post and Homogenic appeared, IMO.
beyoncé's self-titled is as good as or better than lemonade :\
The difference between s/t and Lemonade is the story; that is what (IMO) elevates Lemonade, particularly in the context of how many people Beyonce collaborated with across both music and video to create it.
beyoncé's 4 is as good as or better than self-titled or lemonade :\
4 is a decent-enough album but I've been listening to it a lot the past few days and the only songs on it where Beyonce doesn't sound flat-out atrocious are "Countdown", "End of Time", and "Love On Top". The rest of the time, she's a smaller-voiced singer trying to sing huge, sort of like the entirety of Ashanti's career, and it really brings down the album overall.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:20 (six years ago) link
OTM. I've cooled on 4, or, rather less prepared to apologize for the crap songs.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:21 (six years ago) link
Basically, Hollertronix Beyonce is the worst Beyonce and she spent most of her career prior to the s/t in that mode, which is partially why the s/t hits like a truck and why I wouldn't actually have been mad if it had been on this list instead of Lemonade.
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:24 (six years ago) link
(I will say that 4 is the first time that sustained Hollertronix Beyonce ever worked for me in the context of an entire album, which is what makes it notable in her solo catalog and why I bought it in the first place, but she's come a loooooooong way as a performer since then.)
― this iphone speaks many languages (DJP), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:25 (six years ago) link
DJP, stop being OTM. I'm getting tired of it.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:33 (six years ago) link
btw i always include the bonus tracks when I refer to 4.
tbh i wouldve been fine with all three placing.
― down that brown path (Spottie), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:34 (six years ago) link
Agree that Beyonce needed to be on here. I'm less partial about which album (every one named has great songs; I probably prefer 4 myself, overall), but I just thought that Lemonade placing that high was a little too much like OK Computer topping that Q poll six months after it's release. She's still at that point in her career, though, where each new album can plausibly be called her greatest. We won't know what her best work is for decades yet.
I'm OK with Post, which probably says the exact thing about me that Eric suspects it does. I'm only surprised because I thought Homogenic had overtaken it in many people's affections by now (again, I have no agenda here, as I think both albums are great).
I'm clearly allergic to Britney, but I think I would have eye-rolled less hard if they had gone with one of her clubbier albums (In The Zone, Circus, whatever) rather than the debut. As it stands, NPR now has to live with the fact that they included an album that contains a song called "Email My Heart" on a list of best albums of all time.
― some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Monday, 24 July 2017 20:48 (six years ago) link
Lists and lists so there will always be head scratchers on either side of the line, but surprised to see there's no McGarrigles, and no Sandy Denny. But especially no My Bloody Valentine.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 July 2017 21:18 (six years ago) link
(Lists are lists, that should lead.)
32. BjörkPost (Elektra, 1995)
That's me!
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Monday, 24 July 2017 21:44 (six years ago) link
the critical rehabilitation of Nina Simone has really been interesting, would not have predicted it 10 years ago when most people had no idea who she was
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 21:45 (six years ago) link
oh I don't know -- in my circle she was the only black woman singer my friends were listening to in the late '90s. She always had her cult. It's critics who condescended to her.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 21:48 (six years ago) link
she was def a cult figure, maybe partially because her catalog was so much about re-working the canon (so many covers and covers) that people didn't register her POV as being authentic or authorial or something (rockism etc.)? A lot of things about her previously coded as "square" - the virtuoso technique applied to super-pro studio arrangements of contemporary hits or weird genre exercises, for example. She doesn't fit into prior established roles of black, female artistes. So it's interesting to see her suddenly explode into wider pop consciousness because of... what, exactly? The documentary? The end credits of Inland Empire? idk
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 21:54 (six years ago) link
lol that was supposed to say "so many standards and covers"
sorry
what's next, a Joan Armitrading revival
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 21:55 (six years ago) link
Jeff Buckley was big on Nina Simone, iirc.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 24 July 2017 21:55 (six years ago) link
I'm not surprised. If it isn't clear I'm not a huge Nina fan myself - can take or leave most of her catalog - but I can't deny she's a fascinating figure/personality.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 22:01 (six years ago) link
― Οὖτις, Monday, July 24, 2017 5:55 PM
She's good too. I'm surprised she wasn't on the list!
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 22:02 (six years ago) link
well as noted there's all kinds of gaps. these sorts of lists are always telling in who's in/who's out indicating what's culturally valued critically these days. Poptimism still in full swing, obviously.
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 22:03 (six years ago) link
all the biggest post-boomer names represented, recent chart-pop goddesses respected, Gen X/riot grrl feminist wave present, a smattering of non-English speaking artists to demonstrate global breadth.
but nothing too obscure or currently maligned/ignored, various minor genre outliers, or too old (the starting point here is really lame, as noted. No Carter Family!)
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 22:07 (six years ago) link
Poptimism still in full swing, obviously.
grr
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 22:13 (six years ago) link
am I supposed to use some other term
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 22:14 (six years ago) link
Liking pop music has been part of the listening and critical experience since the beginning: Stevie Nicks, Aretha, Kate Bush (in England) were pop stars. Including Britney is no different. An argument for another thread, though.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 22:19 (six years ago) link
fair enough, yes I was using it as shorthand for "critical post-90s chartpop darlings"
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 22:21 (six years ago) link
and Madonna of course!
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 22:22 (six years ago) link
eh I consider Madonna in a league of her own tbh
(granted it's still a league I have no interest in listening to, but her place in the culture is undeniable)
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 22:27 (six years ago) link
To offset the griping (mostly mine), three that I was delighted to see here: Patty Griffin, Sheila E, Against Me!
― some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Monday, 24 July 2017 22:27 (six years ago) link
I see what you did there.
xpost
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 24 July 2017 22:27 (six years ago) link
high five
Was Grace Slick in there? surely she defined and woman-ized the otherwise-male Jefferson Airplane in much the same way Kim Gordon did Sonic Youth?
I think the reasoning might be that Slick rarely had more than a few songs on any given Airplane release, and outside of those songs her biggest musical contributions were harmonies whereas Gordon had a bigger part of SY both in songwriting and as a bass/guitar player.
I say this because I can't be the only one who picked up Surrealistic Pillow after seeing it on umpteen 'Women In Rock' lists and being disappointed that the only Grace songs were the two I already knew from the radio.
― to fly across the city and find Aerosmith's car (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 24 July 2017 22:35 (six years ago) link
So much good stuff and nothing I could think of that was missing, tho I didn't see Judee Sill?
Amy Winehouse ranked in top 10 is OTM - Such a great loss, the only one I think who could've brought doo-wop back again and make it fresh
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 24 July 2017 22:37 (six years ago) link
I can think of lots of stuff missing but they are personal favorites and why would critical consensus overlap with them
― Οὖτις, Monday, 24 July 2017 22:39 (six years ago) link
yeah I can think of stuff missing now too like Vashti etc but i'm with you there on consensus
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Monday, 24 July 2017 22:45 (six years ago) link
the fader came out with their own list of 150 more great records by women: http://www.thefader.com/2017/07/24/150-more-great-albums-made-by-women-npr-list
― joshywinty (josh), Monday, 24 July 2017 23:02 (six years ago) link
Still no Gal Costa. We need 150 more.
― Frederik B, Monday, 24 July 2017 23:06 (six years ago) link
top 1000 or gtfo
― down that brown path (Spottie), Monday, 24 July 2017 23:07 (six years ago) link
iirc Nina Simone's rehabilitation into the mainstream happened because of two 90s movies.
Bridget Fonda's 'Point of No Return' in 1993 and, later, the use of "Sinnerman" in the remake of 'Thomas Crown Affair' in 1999.
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Monday, 24 July 2017 23:25 (six years ago) link
Courtney Barnett - Sometimes I Sit And Think And Sometimes I Just SitJanelle Monae - The ArchAndroidJazmine Sullivan - Reality ShowKathleen Edwards - Failer
They picked the wrong (or at least less correct) Rilo Kiley and Tegan and Sara records, but yes to these!
― some sad trombone Twilight Zone shit (cryptosicko), Monday, 24 July 2017 23:36 (six years ago) link
Joni Mitchell is one of the few artists represented twice on this list, including (deservedly) at the top, but still, surely, Court and Spark should have made it thrice. Also, where's Anne Briggs?
― Lee626, Monday, 24 July 2017 23:39 (six years ago) link
Re Simone, I remember hearing "My Baby Just Cares for Me" quite prominently in 1995's Shallow Grave.
― grawlix (unperson), Monday, 24 July 2017 23:43 (six years ago) link
i don't think the reasons why are really mysterious, but reading through the npr list it seemed disappointing to me - basically, like, inescapably bound to the meagerness that can seem to attach to 'great x by women' or 'important women who xed' counter-historical efforts, where it's always the same handful of examples set against the historically biased entirety of xing. it's like the '... by women' version of a rolling stone greatest albums list or whatever that ends up having sgt pepper's or revolver in the top slot, but the legacy conceptions driving the listmaking process are the artists' past starring-role involvement in '... by women' narratives.
and then looking at a list like the fader list, it seems way more like a list of great albums - i bet if it wasn't flagged as a list of albums by women it would even take a while to register that it even was.
― j., Monday, 24 July 2017 23:48 (six years ago) link
Yeah, that's another one. Her resurgence came via movie soundtracks.
― Ⓓⓡ. (Johnny Fever), Monday, 24 July 2017 23:52 (six years ago) link
Some other major omissions: Dolly Mixture - Demonstration Tapes, Heavenly - Le Jardin de Heavenly, Big Mama Thornton - With the Muddy Waters Blues Band. Of more recent stuff I would have included the most recent Julia Holter, Hurray for the Riff Raff, and Chastity Belt probably as well. But that's just me.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 25 July 2017 01:11 (six years ago) link
Slapp Happy - Acnalbasac Noom would have been a kick to see here as well.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 25 July 2017 01:18 (six years ago) link
Looking forward to a bunch of dudes criticizing the list.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn)
looking forward to endless bickering about #109
lol at npr confusing aynsley dunbar and sly dunbar
― The Saga of Rodney Stooksbury (rushomancy), Tuesday, 25 July 2017 01:43 (six years ago) link
― Frederik B, Monday, July 24, 2017 7:06 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it's really hard for me to look at this as anything other than "a list of records" given the selection criteria and this is still an awful omission
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 25 July 2017 02:14 (six years ago) link
stuff like mirah, hanne hukkelberg, slapp happy and perhacs are omissions but more of a personal nature and the list is as others have mentioned, hit heavy
― Week of Wonders (Ross), Tuesday, 25 July 2017 03:19 (six years ago) link
That's a lot of bad music on that list there, tell you what.
Some good stuff, too, though.
― he doesn't need to be racist about it though. (Austin), Tuesday, 25 July 2017 03:32 (six years ago) link
Btw, Peggy Lee made some pretty outstanding albums from 1964 on, including the one they dipped into for the Mad Men finale, Is That All There Is?. I realize she was no Britney Spears or Robyn, but still.
― Josefa, Tuesday, 25 July 2017 03:48 (six years ago) link
Kudos for Selena in the top 20 though if that’s the list that was copy pasted above.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:51 (five years ago) link
Actually that list is pretty decent.
Still no Chavela Vargas makes me sad. I suspect it’s also missing many afro+latin singers but that could be a separate list.
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Saturday, 4 August 2018 00:54 (five years ago) link
1000% k Michelle
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:02 (five years ago) link
Sevyn streeter
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:03 (five years ago) link
“Motivation” by kelly Rowland >>>>
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:12 (five years ago) link
Hell yeah
― breastcrawl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:20 (five years ago) link
amerie and fka both on the listyou don't have to argue anything, I accept that this list is missing a lot of rnb I just want to know what it is because I like the genremotivation is definitely missing!
― niels, Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:22 (five years ago) link
I missed Amerie (I don’t consider Fka r&b)
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Saturday, 4 August 2018 01:35 (five years ago) link
reggaeton is easily more popular than any other form of latin music in america right now
― dyl, Saturday, 4 August 2018 02:04 (five years ago) link
it's great to see I'm With Her finally getting the credit they deserve.
― billstevejim, Saturday, 4 August 2018 02:36 (five years ago) link