'Oranges & Lemons' by XTC: Classic or Dud

I got all excited when I saw a promo 2LP of this in a thrift store last week, but it was trashed :(

the songwriting on this record is really all over the place, in a way that is more distracting than the production imo. This is not entirely unusual for the band post-Drums and Wires but it makes for an exhausting listening experience, I never listen to this album all the way through. Same goes for Nonsuch.

I'm exhausted two minutes into "Garden of Earthly Delights."

"King for a Day" was the first XTC song I ever heard. My college station was fond of it.

'Making Plans For Nigel' was the first one I heard, and 'Senses Working Overtime' was the second. 'The Disappointed' was the third. I didn't hear any of the others until later - UK radio would barely touch any of their other songs, and 'The Disappointed' was a one-off late at night VH-1 thing.

It's easy to forget this, but Skylarking couldn't have been any more of a flop in the UK. The album didn't make the Top 40. It did manage to scrape itself into the Top 90, but in the UK that was a woeful position, even then. Their time had been and gone, their commercial peak being the Drums and Wires to English Settlement period.

This album was a huge disappointment to me, besides "Chalkhills and Children", after the beauty that was "Skylarking". Haven't listened to it straight through in over 20 years. Just a sonically ugly sounding thing.

perhaps it depends on when you came into xtc. if you were in before english settlement i can see how heavy production could turn you right off. because i came in at nonsuch, my scope of what was acceptable xtc included shiny pop, and o&l blew me away. still does.

It was the first album of theirs I heard (though I didn't like it much at first), which might explain why I don't have problems with the production. Shiny and brassy suits them, I feel. Nonsuch is the album I can't listen all the way through

The first XTC album I owned, Nonsuch, and it repelled me. It sounded like a parody of the band I'd read about.

Nonsuch melodically outshines O&L by some margin, imo

I agree - Nonsuch is one of their best records.

I can't get past the obviousness of "Peter Pumpkinhead," "My Bird Performs," "Crocodile," "War Dance..."

I love Andy's obviousness. Political/personal songwriting doesn't always have to be wrapped in analogy or metaphor. "Melt The Guns"! YMMV.

Some of his lyrics have been that way from the beginning. "Melt the Guns" and "Knuckle Down" succeed for me based on the music, in spite of the lyrics. No, I just find Nonsuch a tiring listen. Probably with four or five songs trimmed I'd enjoy it a lot more. "President Kill" (speaking of obvious lyrics) is really the only one I skip on O&L

Nonsuch is clumsy, I appreciate that it's a corrective to the hectic welter of O&L but I just can't get on with it.

"Hectic welter" nice

Nonsuch is the only double album length XTC record I can get through from start to finish.

aren't there only two?

I kinda feel the opposite - Nonsuch to me would be much better off if they lopped off 4 tracks, while I'm cool listening to English Settlement all the way through, even if there are a few duffers.

I've got Nonsuch but I can't remember anything about it, it was the last dying embers of my XTC fandom tbh.

I remember thinking that Colin Moulding seemed to have totally lost it though.

The start of Moulding's tweedy degeneration into really boring and quotidian songwriting.

Yeah Colin's songs took a big drop in quality on Nonsuch. "Didn't Hurt a Bit" is his last great song, and it didn't make it onto an album. Tears for Fears rewrite or no, I think "King for a Day" is a wonderful song, but after O&L, I can't think of many songs of his I even like

"One of the Millions" is excellent
"King For a Day" is very good but you can really only give half credit for that
"My Bird Performs" is at least pretty

but yeah everything else is a lowlight, save for maybe "Boarded Up" which I like for some dumb reason

As I've said on other XTC threads, I prefer to listen to the demos from O&L and Nonsuch, they've got a much clearer presentation. But, yeah, Colin's songs are his nadir.

And there are no duff tracks on "English Settlement"!

eh I like his songs on Apple Venus, and Standing in for Joe isn't bad

"Fruit Nut" is probably the one I like most post-O&L, and it's still worse than every one of Andy's songs on that album

he did seem to fall into a lazy re-write sort of pattern, whether it was Tears for Fears, the Kinks, or Steely Dan.

I like 'My Bird Performs' (love the chiming guitar and harmonies) and I like 'Bungalow' and 'The Smartest Monkeys' too (although I appreciate that possibly only me and LJ do)...

...I'm not keen on 'War Dance' at all, but I can easily ignore it.

'Then She Appeared', 'The Ugly Underneath', 'Rook', 'Wrapped In Grey', 'The Disappointed' ... some of XTC's best ever songs are on Nonsuch.

And there are no duff tracks on "English Settlement"!

Knuckle Down and Leisure are garbage

aren't there only two?

― frogbs, Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:45 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

English Settlement, Oranges & Lemons, and Nonsuch are all double albums.

oh Leisure is good fun

Side three of English Settlement is one of the weakest - if not the weakest - sides of vinyl XTC ever put out.

yup

'Leisure' is def. garbage, down there with 'Blue Overall' in the "weak Andy songs" pile.

That side is tough to get through, nine Andy Partridge songs in a row too, bit of a slog.

Never understood the hate for Melt the Guns here. It's one of my favorite XTC songs - stands alone in their early work and their later work - perhaps I'm a bit biased because it completely presaged early-00's Animal Collective / noise rock. I don't find the lyrics daft or on the nose, compared to, i don't know, "Keep on Rocking in the Free World" or something. Sweet bassline, really complex and thrilling guitar work, and really compelling drumming by Terry Chambers. Love the scat singing at the end, too! But again, it really reminds me of Here Comes the Indian, so ymmv I suppose...

I said this on another XTC thread, but "Melt the Guns" would be fine without Andy's scaturbation at the end. His voice is not as interesting as he thinks it is (and he can do long tracks -- "Complicated Game" and "Travels in Nihilon" are great).

And if side 3 was replaced by the English Settlement singles b-sides -- "Tissue Tigers," "Punch and Judy," "Blame the Weather" -- it would've been an improvement.

"Fly on the Wall" is the first song on Side 4 right? one of my favorite Colin songs, oft-overlooked... apparently the label wanted it to be a single, but balked once the band "cyber-affixed" the vocals in mixing...

I think Colin's songs are nothing to write home about on O&L and Nonsuch but would say Bungalow was the best he ever wrote.

I've seen a lot of stick thrown at his Apple Venus songs over the years, but I find Frivolous Tonight and Fruit Nut to be absolutely charming and serve well as counterpoint to some of Andy's weightier, more troubled material elsewhere.

Standing In For Joe on Wasp Star is good fun. I've noticed that in later years, lyrically he could be a bit guilty of deriving from a previous Andy idea, like 'My Bird Performs' and 'Mayor Of Simpleton', plus the "I'll be your Burton if you'll be my Liz" stuff on 'In Another Life' is a tad close to 'I'd Like That'.

'My Bird Performed' sounds like 'Jump' in reverse!

*Performs

I do love bands that inspire such radically different takes on their material:

PaulTMA says "Bungalow" is one of Colin's best, whereas I rate it as possibly his absolute worst (along with "Smartest Monkeys" and "War Dance").

Jon and Turrican, both of whose opinions I quite respect, say "Leisure" is garbage whereas I think it's a light bit of fluff.

Tarfumes suggests side 3 of ES should be replaced, but I adore the sheer oddness of "Melt The Guns" and especially "It's Nearly Africa".

But I think we all agree that XTC's b-sides are a treasure trove - I reckon I could make a double LP as good as any of their proper LPs.

I think I don't know any xtc bsides other than dear god! Which means I have some good prime era xtc to dig into at some point.

As a US teenager I owned the short version of English Settlement so it's hard for me to remember that those 'extra' songs I never knew til the CD are not actually bsides.

'Extrovert' is one of my favourite XTC songs! Such a catchy chorus. Also love 'Happy Families', but which it had been done more like the janglier early version.

*wish, rather.

The bonus tracks on Mummer ('Jump', 'Gold', 'Toys', 'Desert Island') are as good as anything on the album itself, and better than some of the lesser tracks on the LP.

Amendment: I know whatever b-sides were on Rag & Bone Buffet

"Red Brick Dream," a Big Express b-side, is one of my favorite XTC songs.

'Train Running Low on Soul Coal' still one of my absolute, all-time favourites.

― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, 26 July 2017 17:03 (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

andy was especially great when he was working the lyrical concept into the sound of the song itself (can't think of the word for this just now). 'train' shunts to a halt just like a big steam train; 'helicopter' is a chopper taking off; 'poor skeleton steps out' bumbles along like a skeleton trying to walk; 'across this antheap' is ants in procession; 'that wave' is water swelling and crashing; 'summer hot as this' is taking place in a heatwave; 'ra ra for red rocking horse' is a toy horse that's totally out of control; 'broomstick rhythm' is mindful sweeping; 'the bland leading the bland' is soulless plebs trudging in circles

Oh, glad to see there's others that like "Miniature Sun". Yeah great lyrics on that one. I agree that the horn blasts don't sound great nowadays - wonder what it would sound like with Apple Venus-quality production

While we're on:

Just passed all the new stereo mixes by Steven Wilson, now to next stage, the surround mix.
Oh, forgot to mention, it's BLACK SEA

— XTC (@xtcfans) July 25, 2017

I'm going to have to listen to 'Nonsuch' to remind me of it because 'Oranges & Lemons' is worse than I remembered it.

xxxpost:

Yeah, absolutely! Also, the "cow bass" on 'Love On A Farmboy's Wages' ...

whoah many thanks for that list Hideous Lump!!!

"Shake You Donkey Up" is like getting bucked off a donkey, and I should know

I want to buy a bass just to play Mayor over and over

I find it fascinating how differently people hear this band's tracks than I do.

Also interesting how split we can be on the overstuffed, abrasive stuff from Big Express and Oranges & Lemons:

Shake You Donkey Up
Reign of Blows
Train Running Low
Garden of Earthly Delights
Across This Antheap
Miniature Sun

Not just between us, but even inside our own rankings--love this one, but hate that one.

I'd rank them: Garden > Donkey >>> Miniature > Reign > Train >>>>>> Antheap

I'd rank 'em:

'Train Running Low On Soul Coal' > 'Across this Antheap' > 'Miniature Sun' > 'Reign of Blows' > 'Garden of Earthly Delights' > 'Shake You Donkey Up'

don;t underestimate the power of hearing "kid! stay and snip your cord off! talk and let your mind loose!" and then being welcomed to the garden of earthly delights when you are 12 and just bought a random album by a band you had never heard of before

it was pretty great
i still feel exhilarated when i hear it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyeBiJssPSg

Yeah, GOED is in my XTC top 10 for sure.

KID!

Those instrumental versions rule.

Saw this in an unsorted box of donations, amongst other choice selections. I thought it was a really unique package and I, of course, had never seen a copy of the album in this format before.

For those who like the tinny, clangorous sound of the CD mastering, but miss the inconvenience of having to get up every 15 minutes to flip the vinyl.

How was the condition? I've never seen one of these that wasn't pretty trashed.

Yeah, I've got the King For A Day 3" CD in the mini crown and that was hard to get home without a bent corner!

I've got one of those, it's in decent nick as I kept it in a safe space, and I wasn't that taken with the album in general at the time.

There's a couple on EBay right now in decent nick for around £25 (starting bid)

This one I came across at work was in pretty decent shape, considering it was basically tossed randomly into a bag with standard jewel cases.

Just thought I'd mention..

The Blu-ray edition is back in stock at Burning Shed for £15 approx, after having been out of stock for ages (and being £80+ on discogs/eBay/etc)

In fact, they 'all' are, including the Dukes of Stratosphear set.

(Not including the ones they've not done yet obv)

Ooh

R.I.P. Paul Fox

As I discussed on [XTC media] very recently, the album sounds to me as though its been played on pipes (a la the Windows screensaver) except made of glass, and coloured in different ways. That's what I hear where some other people hear stuffy late 80sness.