'Oranges & Lemons' by XTC: Classic or Dud

lmao "Wrong." trumpian

To be fair, I didn't really need to point it out since it's generally par for the course with you.

I think I'd probably have most of Skylarking over MoS

The are songs that stand out individually on Skylarking - 'Sacrificial Bonfire' is one of my favourite XTC songs (fabulous string arrangement) and 'The Meeting Place' and 'Earn Enough For Us' are great pop - but I think Skylarking works better as a whole in a greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts way. None of those songs have the utter joy and "fuck, must play this over and over" factor of 'The Mayor of Simpleton', IMO.

"King for a Day" is a little over produced but it still sounds really pleasant to my ears.

This album has the very important distinction of introducing me to Captain Beefheart as the b-side for the 12" of "The Mayor of Simpleton" contained a very faithful cover of "Ella Guru". First thought: "what the FUCK is this?"

Hey, me too! But it took me many more years before the Captain clicked for me.

I always felt "King For A Day" was a rewrite of Tears For Fears "Everybody Wants To Rule The World".

I read that claim at the time.

In the XTC Song Stories book the band refer to it as Everybody Wants Bo be King For A Day.

I'm not a big fan of this album overall, but it does have one of my favourite album covers ever. It was my first XTC album.

A friend of mine went straight for O&L on the strength of the cover and was really disappointed. He said it sounded like a psychedelic Rick Astley album

well, now that you mention it...

Well, the cover is kinda misleading in the sense that it gives the impression that the album is more like the Dukes stuff, but in reality it's a really brash, produced-to-within-an-inch-of-its-life, over-stuffed record made in LA with then-cutting edge technology and containing some really odd songs. Partridge always had a unique way with chord choices and voicings, but there's portions of this record where he outdoes himself.

man I totally forgot about that Ella Guru cover

I got all excited when I saw a promo 2LP of this in a thrift store last week, but it was trashed :(

the songwriting on this record is really all over the place, in a way that is more distracting than the production imo. This is not entirely unusual for the band post-Drums and Wires but it makes for an exhausting listening experience, I never listen to this album all the way through. Same goes for Nonsuch.

I'm exhausted two minutes into "Garden of Earthly Delights."

"King for a Day" was the first XTC song I ever heard. My college station was fond of it.

'Making Plans For Nigel' was the first one I heard, and 'Senses Working Overtime' was the second. 'The Disappointed' was the third. I didn't hear any of the others until later - UK radio would barely touch any of their other songs, and 'The Disappointed' was a one-off late at night VH-1 thing.

It's easy to forget this, but Skylarking couldn't have been any more of a flop in the UK. The album didn't make the Top 40. It did manage to scrape itself into the Top 90, but in the UK that was a woeful position, even then. Their time had been and gone, their commercial peak being the Drums and Wires to English Settlement period.

This album was a huge disappointment to me, besides "Chalkhills and Children", after the beauty that was "Skylarking". Haven't listened to it straight through in over 20 years. Just a sonically ugly sounding thing.

perhaps it depends on when you came into xtc. if you were in before english settlement i can see how heavy production could turn you right off. because i came in at nonsuch, my scope of what was acceptable xtc included shiny pop, and o&l blew me away. still does.

It was the first album of theirs I heard (though I didn't like it much at first), which might explain why I don't have problems with the production. Shiny and brassy suits them, I feel. Nonsuch is the album I can't listen all the way through

The first XTC album I owned, Nonsuch, and it repelled me. It sounded like a parody of the band I'd read about.

Nonsuch melodically outshines O&L by some margin, imo

I agree - Nonsuch is one of their best records.

I can't get past the obviousness of "Peter Pumpkinhead," "My Bird Performs," "Crocodile," "War Dance..."

I love Andy's obviousness. Political/personal songwriting doesn't always have to be wrapped in analogy or metaphor. "Melt The Guns"! YMMV.

Some of his lyrics have been that way from the beginning. "Melt the Guns" and "Knuckle Down" succeed for me based on the music, in spite of the lyrics. No, I just find Nonsuch a tiring listen. Probably with four or five songs trimmed I'd enjoy it a lot more. "President Kill" (speaking of obvious lyrics) is really the only one I skip on O&L

Nonsuch is clumsy, I appreciate that it's a corrective to the hectic welter of O&L but I just can't get on with it.

"Hectic welter" nice

Nonsuch is the only double album length XTC record I can get through from start to finish.

aren't there only two?

I kinda feel the opposite - Nonsuch to me would be much better off if they lopped off 4 tracks, while I'm cool listening to English Settlement all the way through, even if there are a few duffers.

I've got Nonsuch but I can't remember anything about it, it was the last dying embers of my XTC fandom tbh.

I remember thinking that Colin Moulding seemed to have totally lost it though.

The start of Moulding's tweedy degeneration into really boring and quotidian songwriting.

Yeah Colin's songs took a big drop in quality on Nonsuch. "Didn't Hurt a Bit" is his last great song, and it didn't make it onto an album. Tears for Fears rewrite or no, I think "King for a Day" is a wonderful song, but after O&L, I can't think of many songs of his I even like

"One of the Millions" is excellent
"King For a Day" is very good but you can really only give half credit for that
"My Bird Performs" is at least pretty

but yeah everything else is a lowlight, save for maybe "Boarded Up" which I like for some dumb reason

As I've said on other XTC threads, I prefer to listen to the demos from O&L and Nonsuch, they've got a much clearer presentation. But, yeah, Colin's songs are his nadir.

And there are no duff tracks on "English Settlement"!

eh I like his songs on Apple Venus, and Standing in for Joe isn't bad

"Fruit Nut" is probably the one I like most post-O&L, and it's still worse than every one of Andy's songs on that album

he did seem to fall into a lazy re-write sort of pattern, whether it was Tears for Fears, the Kinks, or Steely Dan.

I like 'My Bird Performs' (love the chiming guitar and harmonies) and I like 'Bungalow' and 'The Smartest Monkeys' too (although I appreciate that possibly only me and LJ do)...

...I'm not keen on 'War Dance' at all, but I can easily ignore it.

'Then She Appeared', 'The Ugly Underneath', 'Rook', 'Wrapped In Grey', 'The Disappointed' ... some of XTC's best ever songs are on Nonsuch.

And there are no duff tracks on "English Settlement"!

Knuckle Down and Leisure are garbage

aren't there only two?

― frogbs, Tuesday, July 25, 2017 12:45 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

English Settlement, Oranges & Lemons, and Nonsuch are all double albums.

oh Leisure is good fun

Side three of English Settlement is one of the weakest - if not the weakest - sides of vinyl XTC ever put out.

yup

'Leisure' is def. garbage, down there with 'Blue Overall' in the "weak Andy songs" pile.

That side is tough to get through, nine Andy Partridge songs in a row too, bit of a slog.

Never understood the hate for Melt the Guns here. It's one of my favorite XTC songs - stands alone in their early work and their later work - perhaps I'm a bit biased because it completely presaged early-00's Animal Collective / noise rock. I don't find the lyrics daft or on the nose, compared to, i don't know, "Keep on Rocking in the Free World" or something. Sweet bassline, really complex and thrilling guitar work, and really compelling drumming by Terry Chambers. Love the scat singing at the end, too! But again, it really reminds me of Here Comes the Indian, so ymmv I suppose...

We should stop saying this or that technological innovation did or did not age well or is "dated." Technology by nature becomes obsolete. Yet no one says electric guitars tuned a certain way sound "dated."

If, however, the drums are programmed ineptly, that's another question, a valid one.

oh yeah "All You Pretty Girls" and "I Bought Myself a Liarbird" are in my top 5 XTC songs. Never understood the indifference towards TBE.

and "I Remember the Sun."

i really like TBE, it felt like a normal step after the pop formalism of Mummer, which i thought was underrated. and it had no funkpoparoll, which was nice. it preceded 25OClock and Skylarking, though, which too me were massive massive. if anything, if i wanted great pop formalism i went skylarking, if i wanted great pastoralism i went mummer, and if i wanted cool weirdness i went dukes. so TBE was kinda left alone. boy do i fucking hate oranges and lemons though and i feel i've addressed that shitheap elsewhere.

"to," too.

(A probably incomplete list of) The Complete XTC Non-Album Tracks (by year of original release, and the most common place it can be found, because why not)

1977
Dance Band --White Music--
Science Friction --White Music--
She's So Square --White Music--
1978
Are You Receiving Me --Go 2--
Hang on to the Night --White Music--
Heatwave --White Music--
Instant Tunes --White Music--
Traffic Light Rock --White Music--
Beat the Bible --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
Clap Clap Clap --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
Dance with Me, Germany --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
A Dictionary of Modern Marriage --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
We Kill the Beast --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
1979
Bushman President (Homo Safari No. 2) --Dear God/Homo Safari Series EP--
Chain of Command --Drums and Wires--
Homo Safari (Homo Safari No. 1) --Dear God/Homo Safari Series EP--
Life Begins at the Hop --Any 'Best Of'--
Limelight --Drums and Wires--
Looking for Footprints --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Cairo (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
Commerciality (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
The Day They Pulled the North Pole Down (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
The Forgotten Language of Light (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
I Sit in the Snow (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
Madhattan (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
New Broom (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
The Rotary (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
Steam Fist Futurist (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
Work Away Tokyo Day (Mr. Partridge) --Explode Together: The Dub Experiments--
1980
Don't Lose Your Temper --Black Sea--
The History of Rock and Roll (Andy Partridge) --Rag and Bone Buffet--
I Need Protection (Colin Moulding as The Colonel) --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Officer Blue --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Pulsing Pulsing --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Smokeless Zone --Black Sea--
The Somnambulist --Black Sea--
Strange Tales, Strange Tails --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Take This Town --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Too Many Cooks in the Kitchen (Colin Moulding as The Colonel) --Rag and Bone Buffet--
1981
Wait Till Your Boat Goes Down --Some 'Best Of's'--
1982
Blame the Weather --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Egyptian Solution (Homo Safari No. 3) --Dear God/Homo Safari Series EP--
Heaven Is Paved with Broken Glass --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Over Rusty Water --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Punch and Judy --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Tissue Tigers (The Arguers) --Rag and Bone Buffet--
1983
Desert Island --Mummer--
Frost Circus (Homo Safari No. 5) --Mummer--
Gold --Mummer--
Jump --Mummer--
Procession Towards Learning Land (Homo Safari No. 6) --Mummer--
Toys --Mummer--
1984
Blue Overall --The Big Express--
Countdown to Christmas Party Time --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Mantis on Parole (Homo Safari No. 4) --Dear God/Homo Safari Series EP--
Red Brick Dream --The Big Express--
Thanks for Christmas --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Washaway --The Big Express--
1986
Dear God --Skylarking—
Extrovert --Rag and Bone Buffet--
Find the Fox --Coat of Many Cupboards--
Let's Make a Den --Coat of Many Cupboards--
Terrorism --Coat of Many Cupboards--
The Troubles --Coat of Many Cupboards--
1987
Bags of Fun with Buster (Andy Partridge & John Otway) --Johnny Japes and His Jesticles 7"--
Scrotal Scratch Mix (Andy Partridge & John Otway) --Johnny Japes and His Jesticles 7"--
1988
Ella Guru --Mayor of Simpleton 12"--
Happy Families --Rag and Bone Buffet--
1989
The Good Things (demo version) --Mayor of Simpleton 12"--
Living in a Haunted Heart --Mayor of Simpleton 12"--
My Paint Heroes --King for a Day CD single--
Skeletons --King for a Day CD single--
1990
Strawberry Fields Forever (Dave Gregory & Andy Partridge as Colin's Hermits) --Andy Partridge – Fuzzy Warbles Vol. 3--
Third Stone from the Sun (Dave Gregory as David Dreams) --V/A - If 6 Was 9: A Tribute to Jimi Hendrix--
1991
Rocket (Andy Partridge) --Andy Partridge – Fuzzy Warbles Vol. 1--
The World Is Full of Angry Young Men --Rag and Bone Buffet--
1992
Always Winter Never Christmas --Demo Tracks EP--
Didn't Hurt a Bit --Coat of Many Cupboards--
Down a Peg --Demo Tracks EP--
1993
Cherry in Your Tree --V/A - Carmen Sandiego: Out of This World--
1994
Candymine (Andy Partridge) --Andy Partridge – Fuzzy Warbles Vol. 7--
It's Snowing Angels (Andy Partridge) --Andy Partridge – Fuzzy Warbles Vol. 2--
Prince of Orange (Andy Partridge) --Andy Partridge – Fuzzy Warbles Vol. 6--
Some Lovely (My Brown Guitar) (Andy Partridge) --Homegrown: Wasp Star Demos--
1995
The Good Things (band version, as Terry and the Lovemen) --V/A - Testimonial Dinner: A Tribute to XTC--
2000
Bumpercars --Wasp Star (Japan Bonus Track)--
2002
Fireball XL-5/Fireball Dub --Coat of Many Cupboards--
Let's Have Fun --Coat of Many Cupboards--
Things Fall to Bits --Coat of Many Cupboards--
Us Being Us --Coat of Many Cupboards--
Sleepyheads ("Looking for Footprints" early version) --Coat of Many Cupboards--
2005
Say It --Apple Box--
Spiral --Apple Box--
Where Did All the Ordinary People Go --Apple Box--
2009
Black Jewelled Serpent of Sound --25 O'Clock--
Nicely Nicely Jane --25 O'Clock--
Open a Can of Human Beans --25 O'Clock--
Susan Revolving --25 O'Clock--
Tin Toy Clockwork Train --25 O'Clock--

My 19 favorite non-album tracks (in roughly this order, determined when we did the XTC poll)

Chain of Command
Life Begins at the Hop
Are You Receiving Me
Pulsing Pulsing
Blame the Weather
Science Friction
Terrorism
Jump
Instant Tunes
Punch and Judy
Take This Town
Red Brick Dream
Washaway
Heaven Is Paved with Broken Glass
Thanks for Christmas
Smokeless Zone
Extrovert
Happy Families
The World Is Full of Angry Young Men

Life Begins at the Hop? that's on both of my copies of Drums & Wires (one of which is missing Making Plans for Nigel).

It wasn't on the original UK Drums & Wires, but going through the original releases on Discogs, most other countries swapped out "Day In Day Out" and stuck in "Hop" instead.

Yeah, 'Life Begins at the Hop' was a non-album single, like 'Wait Till Your Boat Goes Down'... like many albums at the time, Drums and Wires had a US configuration, and 'Life Begins at the Hop' is on that - it was a bonus track in the UK later.

'Miniature Sun' is great and very underrated - there's so many little details in that track, and it's one of the best lyrics on the album, IMO.

The Big Express has only grown more with me over the years, although I think side one has the advantage over side two.

'Train Running Low on Soul Coal' still one of my absolute, all-time favourites.

'Train Running Low on Soul Coal' still one of my absolute, all-time favourites.

― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican), Wednesday, 26 July 2017 17:03 (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

andy was especially great when he was working the lyrical concept into the sound of the song itself (can't think of the word for this just now). 'train' shunts to a halt just like a big steam train; 'helicopter' is a chopper taking off; 'poor skeleton steps out' bumbles along like a skeleton trying to walk; 'across this antheap' is ants in procession; 'that wave' is water swelling and crashing; 'summer hot as this' is taking place in a heatwave; 'ra ra for red rocking horse' is a toy horse that's totally out of control; 'broomstick rhythm' is mindful sweeping; 'the bland leading the bland' is soulless plebs trudging in circles

Oh, glad to see there's others that like "Miniature Sun". Yeah great lyrics on that one. I agree that the horn blasts don't sound great nowadays - wonder what it would sound like with Apple Venus-quality production

While we're on:

Just passed all the new stereo mixes by Steven Wilson, now to next stage, the surround mix.
Oh, forgot to mention, it's BLACK SEA

— XTC (@xtcfans) July 25, 2017

I'm going to have to listen to 'Nonsuch' to remind me of it because 'Oranges & Lemons' is worse than I remembered it.

xxxpost:

Yeah, absolutely! Also, the "cow bass" on 'Love On A Farmboy's Wages' ...

whoah many thanks for that list Hideous Lump!!!

"Shake You Donkey Up" is like getting bucked off a donkey, and I should know

I want to buy a bass just to play Mayor over and over

I find it fascinating how differently people hear this band's tracks than I do.

Also interesting how split we can be on the overstuffed, abrasive stuff from Big Express and Oranges & Lemons:

Shake You Donkey Up
Reign of Blows
Train Running Low
Garden of Earthly Delights
Across This Antheap
Miniature Sun

Not just between us, but even inside our own rankings--love this one, but hate that one.

I'd rank them: Garden > Donkey >>> Miniature > Reign > Train >>>>>> Antheap

I'd rank 'em:

'Train Running Low On Soul Coal' > 'Across this Antheap' > 'Miniature Sun' > 'Reign of Blows' > 'Garden of Earthly Delights' > 'Shake You Donkey Up'

don;t underestimate the power of hearing "kid! stay and snip your cord off! talk and let your mind loose!" and then being welcomed to the garden of earthly delights when you are 12 and just bought a random album by a band you had never heard of before

it was pretty great
i still feel exhilarated when i hear it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyeBiJssPSg

Yeah, GOED is in my XTC top 10 for sure.

KID!

Those instrumental versions rule.

Saw this in an unsorted box of donations, amongst other choice selections. I thought it was a really unique package and I, of course, had never seen a copy of the album in this format before.

For those who like the tinny, clangorous sound of the CD mastering, but miss the inconvenience of having to get up every 15 minutes to flip the vinyl.

How was the condition? I've never seen one of these that wasn't pretty trashed.

Yeah, I've got the King For A Day 3" CD in the mini crown and that was hard to get home without a bent corner!

I've got one of those, it's in decent nick as I kept it in a safe space, and I wasn't that taken with the album in general at the time.

There's a couple on EBay right now in decent nick for around £25 (starting bid)

This one I came across at work was in pretty decent shape, considering it was basically tossed randomly into a bag with standard jewel cases.

Just thought I'd mention..

The Blu-ray edition is back in stock at Burning Shed for £15 approx, after having been out of stock for ages (and being £80+ on discogs/eBay/etc)

In fact, they 'all' are, including the Dukes of Stratosphear set.

(Not including the ones they've not done yet obv)

Ooh

R.I.P. Paul Fox

As I discussed on [XTC media] very recently, the album sounds to me as though its been played on pipes (a la the Windows screensaver) except made of glass, and coloured in different ways. That's what I hear where some other people hear stuffy late 80sness.