whatchu playing now

What would you consider a solid lower limit on APM?

It's quality not quantity.

The gameplay consists of googling keywords and watching the videos that come up

Right yep and chess isn't much of a game because the gameplay consists of pushing bits of plastic around on a table.

Gameplay just isn't a useful term here. The game in Her Story is "try to think of search terms that will uncover bits of the story you've not uncovered already". I enjoyed playing it.

And yeah if you've read more than two books in your life you'll guess how the story ends, but that didn't spoil anything for me, it was the process that was enjoyable rather than the plot.

"games" are not easily definable but a simple definition that i think works is "an artificial goal with obstacles to surmount." this includes chess (the goal is winning, the obstacle is checkmating your opponent's king without being checkmated yourself), athletic competition, card games, games of luck (which contain obstacles even tho skill is often not required), and most things we call "video games," including things like interactive fiction that have meaningful choices and/or puzzles to solve. however games that are "walking simulators" are more complicated. is it really a game if there's no gameplay? it resembles a video game in that there are mediated images that you control/traverse to some extent but if there's no goal and there are no obstacles is there really a game? admittedly Her Story has a v minor ludic element in that u do guess keywords to try and find clips you haven't seen yet. but there's no win state, and the obstacle is not particularly interesting or challenging. there are no meaningful choices. i assume everyone here would agree that if it were just the video in one long clip and you didn't interact with it at all - that's surely not a "game." so the game bit is that you google the keywords to see more of the video. it's maybe arguably a game but i don't think anyone should be horrified that there's an opinion out there that it's not much of one.

there's no win state

Well there's no compulsory win state but there's an optional "unlock every single clip" target which I ended up going for. So yeah that might have changed the experience for me to an extent, to be fair.

The walking simulator argument is a different one, the answer there is really just "yeah it's not a game, it's something else, what's the problem with that?"

no problem w/ it at all! that would be like if someone said "hey i really enjoyed playing war and peace" and i was like "hey great novel not really a game." it's lack of gameness doesn't mean it's not a great novel. it just means that if you're looking to /play/ something you might not get fulfillment from reading it.

i think the term 'visual novel', if it didn't come with weird baggage, would be a pretty good way to describe a lot of these things e.g. night in the woods, kentucky route zero, etc - they all have 'gameplay' insofar as you're navigating the game's physical space and making dialog choices that can affect how you experience the story - night in the woods even has platforming segments that put it further into the grey area. but there's not really any way to get 'stuck', no challenges to fail.

i just hate the term 'walking simulator' is what i guess i'm trying to say here - it's a mocking term that doesn't really capture what these games are about

That's fair and I like all sorts of IF games that have barely any gameplay (Photopia, Telltale games). If it didn't so heavily imply text games IF would be serviceable for almost all these.

yeah i like IF even better than visual novel as a term actually

There are more and more VR things which aren't gamey in any way, and those just keep getting referred to as "experiences". I'm pretty much fine with that, it doesn't even imply a narrative, just an environment.

that's part of my problem with 'walking simulator' is it implies environment over narrative when the best ones are more about storytelling

i hope VR will cause a resurgence of in-game characters addressing the player directly a la Sewer Shark.

i love the term "walking simulator" cos it often points me towards things i'd be interested in

we could distinguish between two kinds of ludic objects: games and toys, where games are generally as Mordy describes them upthread and toys lack innate goal-orientation or even challenge. some video games are really toys, and that's fine, and one way of identifying the difference is how we talk about "gameplay".

to be less reductive, it's possible to interact with a lot of games as toys and vice versa - it's not two Platonic forms, it's two kinds of interaction

Perhaps a definition of 'game' is impossible, there's no necessary and sufficient criteria. Perhaps there's just some sort of 'family resemblance' *cough*

HL2

and it's still awesome today

I made an eBay impulse buy of an Oculus Rift DK2, so have finally actually played some Elite: Dangerous, having bought it in the Steam Winter Sale. Not sure what I think of the game yet, but VR is pretty amazing.

I made an eBay impulse buy of an Oculus Rift DK2, so have finally actually played some Elite: Dangerous, having bought it in the Steam Winter Sale. Not sure what I think of the game yet, but VR is pretty amazing.

Oops, Zing Touch double-post

what's elite like in VR? i haven't played it since the first mid-80s version. still waiting for the first truly unmissable VR game, is this it? currently have gear VR but willing to upgrade when price+content level out.

I'm still at the point where I'm just kind of amazed when a ship flies out of 'view' and I can just look over my shoulder and track its movements, etc. So the game is blowing my mind a little, but that's mostly because VR.

I totally couldn't justify full price VR (though the oculus summer sale is intriguing), but I paid £100 for the Dev Kit V2 (which is slightly lower resolution than the consumer version), which felt like an ok entry price.

I used to love Elite back on my Amiga, so as long as I can get away with living a trader lifestyle and fighting the occasional pirate - as it seems possible so far - I think it'll be great. Feels like proper escapism in VR

Shovel Knight, which is fun. I played through the main campaign with no problems, but now I'm trying the Plague of Shadows expansion and I literally can't make the first jump on the first level. I seriously tried for like 10 minutes to jump over a wall.

I, too, look forward to the day when I can be rubbish at games and it will be as if I'm really being rubbish at things.

i bought valkyria chronicles a long time ago and somehow drifted off before i even finished the first chapter.i have now drifted back to the shores of valkyria and i'm enjoying it quite a bit. there are way too many story scenes. i don't mind them that much, the writing and acting are about slightly above average (still pretty bad but the world is interesting enough to capture my attention. but instead of one story segment between stories there are often 4 or 5 stories in a row and it really drags things down. i think i'd be more psychologically prepared for them if they'd just combine all the brief mandatory story segments between missions into a single, longer segment.

I'm playing Final Fantasy VI. It's good!

ya damn right it is!

Is it really???

yes. ultros be praised

Oh nm u said VI I spaced and thought I were talking about most recent one yeah VI is great

You*

I grew up on jrpgs but never actually played chrono trigger, maybe I'll do that after whining my way through rdr

Assassin's Creed IV. so nice to sail through these digital tropics, exploring random little islands, diving for sunken treasure, etc. this game is still stunning. best ship battles in video games! i never finished this the first time though. looking forward to checking out the DLC.

Like "walking simulator". Like a lot of originally derogatory terms, it can be embraced, and its less cumbersome than alternatives (immersive environment, virtual narrative etc).

I played the *Elite* beta for quite a while using TrackIR, which still seems like a better match than VR for flight-sims where most objects are distant and control panels have lots of tiny text. If I had an Oculus, I'd be most interested in loading up *Subnautica* (underwater survival horror).

PUBG remains fun for blowing off steam, and has become quite a marketing phenomenon (400k concurrent users for an Early Access game). Friend me (NotThisWay on steam) if you'd like to team up.

I'm mostly still fucking with the Friday the 13th game, despite the many issues with playing this game on Xbox.

oh hell qualx u in for a treat. ct is the sweetest fruit on the jrpg tree.

I generously gave a friend of mine my old CD copy of Rollercoaster Tycoon + expansion packs. After I'd set it up for him on his laptop, we played for a bit and it was so fucking great I immediately went home and bought the Deluxe version off Steam.

Just finished Inside, and what a finish! Still not quite sure what to make of it.

Perhaps a definition of 'game' is impossible, there's no necessary and sufficient criteria. Perhaps there's just some sort of 'family resemblance' *cough*

― Eallach mhór an duine leisg (dowd), Friday, July 21, 2017 11:59 AM (four days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yo otm

backlog update: did Batman: Arkham Origins DLC "Cold Cold Heart". appraisal: Not bad.

oh hell qualx u in for a treat. ct is the sweetest fruit on the jrpg tree.

― flippy bard (Will M.), Monday, July 24, 2017 6:07 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

it's not an active member of my backlog so it might be hard to justify rn

i also really wanna play through suikoden 1 and 2 for the first time in... 15 years?

I am playing Pyre, the new game from Supergiant (the Bastion/Transistor folks) and it is AMAZING. the game essentially plays like a hybrid of the Oregon Trail and NBA Jam, except it's presented in some fantasy setting; you might think that such disparate elements might not gel that well together but you would be incredibly wrong, because this is a brutally easy game to just keep playing (I went for ~4 hours last night pretty much without blinking). it is also one of the most beautiful games I can remember seeing on my TV in a while; if P5 hadn't also come out this year it would be a massive frontrunner for the best-looking game of 2017. A++++++++, please play it.

Nex Machina, the new game from Housemarque, is also fucking phenomenal (not that anything less could be expected from that amazing team). apparently it was developed as a collaboration with Eugene Jarvis, the guy behind Robotron & Smash TV, so it's pretty solid fundamentally. highly recommended if you are an enthusiast of explosions and/or shooting stuff.

I have also been tinkering around with the PS4 Diablo 3 again lately; I picked up the necromancer expansion on a whim recently and got sucked right back into the best version of this excellent game.

finally Miitopia came out last night; I was only able to sink an hour or so into it but my love for the demo absolutely carries over. it's essentially Tomodachi Life, only with a point.

I got hooked on Pyre last night, it's really great.

horizon zero dawn

the game essentially plays like a hybrid of the Oregon Trail and NBA Jam

Pyre is pretty great (only about 2-3 hours in)
"the you know who prevail"

i only wish i could just skip all the story stuff. i get that it's trying to be a rpg, but god i hate this kind of shit

the music and overall sound design is excellent

the fun factor is 4.5 out of 5