ATTN: Copyeditors and Grammar Fiends

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (5060 of them)
I'd drop the commas, j c - that many commas were more popular in a time long past, but I think it can look a tad oldfashioned these days.

Trayce (trayce), Friday, 1 October 2004 04:13 (nineteen years ago) link

If Isaac's your only brother, then you need the commas, because "my brother" and "Isaac" are both referring to the same thing and "Isaac" is therefore a nonessential element. That is, if you just said "my brother," that would be enough information to know who you were talking about, since you only have one. Likewise, if you have more than one brother, the name becomes essential information, because there's no way of knowing which brother you mean unless you also include the name. "My brother Isaac" becomes like saying "my friend Sam" -- which would only be "my friend, Sam," if you only had one friend. Which would be very sad.

(fun with nonessential elements)

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 1 October 2004 05:54 (nineteen years ago) link

sam's a pretty cool dude though

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 1 October 2004 05:56 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, if you're only going to have one friend, you can do worse.

gypsy mothra (gypsy mothra), Friday, 1 October 2004 06:16 (nineteen years ago) link

assuming i only have one brother, would it be acceptable to write, "I went with my brother Isaac to the store" or do i have to write, "I went with my brother, Isaac, to the store" ?

'I went to the store with my brother Isaac.'

Core of Sphagnum (Autumn Almanac), Friday, 1 October 2004 06:25 (nineteen years ago) link

you could just say "brother Isaac" and sound all mormon

amateur!!!st (amateurist), Friday, 1 October 2004 12:17 (nineteen years ago) link

one month passes...
OK, I've just been writing and re-writing this sentence for the last ten minutes:

The evidence for “Americanization” of French culture is mixed, and its extent is impossible to measure, as culture is not easily definable, let alone quantifiable.

Please can you help me arrange it so it sounds better. Most importantly I need a more essay-register way of saying "let alone", but the whole sentence seems really clumsy still and I don't know how to fix it.

I hope there's someone around who can help. My head hurts.

Cathy (Cathy), Sunday, 28 November 2004 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link

I always try to split up sentences when they have too many clauses.

Culture is not easily definable, much less quantifiable. Thus, not only is the evidence for "Americanization" of French culture mixed, but its actual extent is impossible to measure.

?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:08 (nineteen years ago) link

Perfect! Thanks very much. : ))))))))

Cathy (Cathy), Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:15 (nineteen years ago) link

You must use "but also" if you use "not only"

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:16 (nineteen years ago) link

"Culture is not easily definable, much less quantifiable; thus, the evidence for "Americanization" of French culture mixed, and its actual extent is impossible to measure."

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:17 (nineteen years ago) link

(add an "is" before mixed, obv. :P)

the "not only/but" thing is unnecessary

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:18 (nineteen years ago) link

actually now that I look at it, "it" has an unclear antecedent. It looks like it's saying that the extent of the evidence is immeasurable rather than the extent of "Americanization"

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

see, this is why I hate writing essays. And I have two due tomorrow for history >:(

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

I think the sentence was perfectly OK in the first place, Cathy.

Puddin'Head Miller (PJ Miller), Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:57 (nineteen years ago) link

Don't say that, PJ! It's changed now, and I hope (and think) for the better.

Thanks all.

I just finished my essay, wahey!!

Cathy (Cathy), Sunday, 28 November 2004 19:27 (nineteen years ago) link

:D

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 28 November 2004 19:41 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm running into the same too many ideas/sentence thing in my papers too.

I've decided to switch from a Jan 27, 1997 format to a 27 Jan 1997 format for dates because eliminating the extra comma helps the readability of some of my nastier sentences.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 28 November 2004 20:46 (nineteen years ago) link

five months pass...
REVIVE because I need someone to pimp this sentence, which is offensive to hard-core, old-fashioned grammar/usage nazis in more than one place. Winner will have his/her sentence published in an HIV/AIDS glossary famous among dozens.

Here it is: "Although there are many different types of HLA proteins, each person has only a small, relatively unique set that is inherited from their parents."

Thanks much. And, uh, I'm on deadline, so hurry up!

quincie, Monday, 2 May 2005 17:21 (eighteen years ago) link

just go with a singular pronoun or the old "his or her" if you're feeling PC.

Miss Misery (thatgirl), Monday, 2 May 2005 17:26 (eighteen years ago) link

"His or her parents" is what you want--nothing PC about it.

The Mad Puffin, Monday, 2 May 2005 17:30 (eighteen years ago) link

"Although many different types of HLA proteins exist, each person has only a small and realtively unique, inherited set."

diedre mousedropping (Dave225), Monday, 2 May 2005 17:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Although there are many different types of HLA proteins, each person inherits only a small and relatively unique subset.

Although there are many different types of HLA proteins, individuals inherit from their parents only a small and relatively unique subset.

etc.

rogermexico (rogermexico), Monday, 2 May 2005 17:32 (eighteen years ago) link

"Although there are many different types of HLA proteins, for every human there is only a small, relatively unique set that is inherited from his or her parents."

ken c (ken c), Monday, 2 May 2005 17:32 (eighteen years ago) link

OR

"Although many different types of HLA proteins exist, each person inherits only a small, realtively unique set."

.. not sure if that meaning is accurate or not. You may want to clarify the sentence in that .. is only the inherited set small, or is the total set small?

diedre mousedropping (Dave225), Monday, 2 May 2005 17:34 (eighteen years ago) link

Looks like diedre and I agree: just elide the problem areas.

You don't have to be a grammar/usage nazi to object to torture in all its forms, including wrt the language.

rogermexico (rogermexico), Monday, 2 May 2005 17:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Where would it be inherited from if not from your parents???? Can you inherit from your uncle? I would throw that phrase out completely.

Also, I want to kill the person who prompted Andrew's initial post.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 2 May 2005 17:48 (eighteen years ago) link

OK this is good, thank you, but the "relatively unique" thing is driving me nuts, too! Yet it rather gets the point across. . .

So, any thoughts on "relatively unique?" Oh shit I'm an idiot, I just realized that is a great pun! Maybe I should keep it, then.

quincie, Monday, 2 May 2005 18:12 (eighteen years ago) link

"Although there are many different types of HLA proteins, each person inherents only a small, relatively unique subset (from his or her parents)."

The Ghost of Part in Parens Optional (Dan Perry), Monday, 2 May 2005 18:18 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah, the "relatively unique" is what bothers me - what is it supposed to mean? Relative to the parents or relative to people other than the parents? I'm guessing there's a reason for it to be there, but if there isn't, it should just be "unique" (the subset is either unique or not unique, right?)

rrrobyn (rrrobyn), Monday, 2 May 2005 18:29 (eighteen years ago) link

I read that as meaning "unique across the broader population for all intents and purposes, but not strictly unique". Maybe you should say "effectively unique"?

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 2 May 2005 18:32 (eighteen years ago) link

Should it be "small and relatively unique" or "small but relatively unique"?

James Mitchell (James Mitchell), Monday, 2 May 2005 18:50 (eighteen years ago) link

"and" before "but" I would think; there's nothing about quantity that would inherently contradict the set's uniqueness.

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 2 May 2005 18:56 (eighteen years ago) link

Also, since we're being grammar fiends, I was always taught that "there are many different types of HLA proteins" ("There are") was bad form.

diedre mousedropping (Dave225), Monday, 2 May 2005 18:59 (eighteen years ago) link

"Although many different types of HLA proteins exist, each person inherents only a small and relatively unique subset (from his or her parents)."

The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 2 May 2005 19:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Dan OTM with "relatively unique" meaning something like "unique across the broader population for all intents and purposes, but not strictly unique," but I don't think I can get away with "effectively unique" because that is a bit too fancy for this particular audience.

I was hoping to just get rid of the whole "unique" problem and go with something that means what Dan said, but not using that irksome word. Old-school is to insist that there are no degrees of unique; either it is or it isn't, period.

quincie, Monday, 2 May 2005 19:02 (eighteen years ago) link

"Although many different types of HLA proteins exist, each person inherents only a small subset (from his or her parents) that is almost distinct enough to be a genetic fingerprint."

The Ghost of I Don't Like That Either (Dan Perry), Monday, 2 May 2005 19:06 (eighteen years ago) link

Good point diedre but maybe this won't sound so bad in context. Here is the full definition at the moment:

HUMAN LEUKOCYTE ANTIGEN: also known as major histocompatibility complex (MHC). These proteins are found on the outside of almost every cell in the body and play an important part in controlling the immune system. Although there are many different types of HLA proteins, each person has only a small, relatively unique set that is inherited from their parents. Some HLA types are associated either a faster or slower progression of HIV disease. The type of HLA proteins a person has is also important in identifying good "matches" for tissue grafts and organ transplants.

So yeah, ya'll can go to town on the rest of it, too (if you like!).

Do I have the world's coolest job or what?

quincie, Monday, 2 May 2005 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, and HLA haplotypes really can be categorized as "types" and not completely unique thingies, and it is the "type" aspect that I need to focus on. I guess I'm trying to get across the concept of "dude if you have HIV and are lucky enough to be HLA-B57 than you may end up being one of these people who never goes on to get AIDS, even without treatment."

I'm kind of sucking as a med writer right now. I'm better as an editor, I think.

quincie, Monday, 2 May 2005 19:14 (eighteen years ago) link

there is nothing wrong with your original sentence at all, quincie. it is simple and easy to understand, and therefore a lot more use to most readers than a) complex sentences rewritten to conform to archaic grammatical ideas, or b) most scientific writing. granted, "relatively unique" is a little lazy, but ... god damn, it gets the point across and doesn't stop you in its tracks. which, as i keep reiterating in the style book i'm currently writing for my newspaper, is the POINT.

"their" is a perfectly acceptable form of non-gender third-person-singular possessive: i have the might of the oxford dictionary on my side. (er, i think.) god damn, it's a living language: let it evolve.

right, back to ILM. it's safer there.

grimly fiendish (grimlord), Monday, 2 May 2005 19:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Grimly will you marry me?

Don't go back to ILM, stay here!!!

quincie, Monday, 2 May 2005 19:40 (eighteen years ago) link

I normally cringe at "his or her" but I think you can use it in this sentence, in place of the "their" without it seeming clunky. That's the only change I'd make. Otherwise, it's fine!

jaymc (jaymc), Monday, 2 May 2005 19:43 (eighteen years ago) link

There are many different types of HLA proteins. However, any given individual posesses only a small distinct set, that is inherited form his or her parents.

?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:08 (eighteen years ago) link

"Their" is far preferable to "his or her".

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 01:38 (eighteen years ago) link

"his or her" is the sore thumb that says "I couldn't find a more elegant solution"

rogermexico (rogermexico), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 02:08 (eighteen years ago) link

However, any given individual posesses only a small distinct set, passed on through inheritance?

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 02:20 (eighteen years ago) link

This may have been suggested above, I did not check:

There are many different types of HLA proteins, but each person inherits only a small and essentially distinct set.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 02:25 (eighteen years ago) link

Although there are many types of HLA proteins, each person has only a small set inherited from his or her parents.

is how I'd do it. "exist" is a waste of a verb, because everything exists. (i know this isn't in yr orig. sentence, this was a suggestion.) "different" is superfluous, because you've already got "many types" - i assume these many types are not "the same"!!! "unique" cannot be modified by degree. "that is" is unnecessary.

also in radio you are never allowed to start a sentence with "although" because people will have their brains too full to quite follow the next bit, the bit that you actually are supposedly more concerned with anyway

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 08:44 (eighteen years ago) link

so don't go broadcastin this now, ya hear?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 3 May 2005 08:57 (eighteen years ago) link

Ladies and gentlemen, I believe we have a winner!

HUMAN LEUKOCYTE ANTIGEN: also known as major histocompatibility complex (MHC). These proteins are found on the outside of almost every cell in the body and play an important part in controlling the immune system. Although there are many types of HLA proteins, each person has only a small set inherited from his or her parents. Some HLA types are associated with either a faster or slower progression of HIV disease. The type of HLA proteins a person has is also important in identifying good "matches" for tissue grafts and organ transplants.

Thank you all for helping me out--for whatever reason this particular definition (and especially that second sentence) was giving me fits. So now one last question--do you think that definition would be helpful if you were just an average joe and came across this weird term "HLA" when reading something about HIV/AIDS?

I know I should have a real focus group for this stuff, but time and money do not permit.

quincie, Tuesday, 3 May 2005 13:08 (eighteen years ago) link


You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.