I was listening to Ecstasy of St. Theresa and reading up on the etymology of "sussurate" (although I was actually listening to Fluidtrance Centauri) and I figured "whisper" might be fun to look into since most languages might have a bespoke imitative/onomatopoeic form...
English: whisperGerman: FlüsternFrench: chuchotementSpanish: susurroItalian: bisbiglio
Pretty much every Romance language plus English has cognates for the Latin "sussurate" and "murmur" plus German has an alternate noun "Whispern". English ended up using a word derived from "whistle" as the go-to for whisper, just to be different. The French chuchotement has an older form that shows up in the English "chuchotage" which means "the interpretation or translation of speech in a whisper to a single person in proximity to other people" which is cool and I hadn't heard before. Spanish also has "cuchicheo" which at first glance should be related to the French but both languages claim it themselves. The similar spelling might be what is fooling me, plus it's always risky to claim borrowing with onomatopoeic words. The German is unrelated to English's "flustered" which is Scandinavian in origin ("to make slightly drunk"!). And the Italian word is just awesome.
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Friday, 14 July 2017 04:52 (six years ago) link
This is a fucking magnificent thread, by the way. This shit is what ILX excels at.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Friday, 14 July 2017 05:20 (six years ago) link
English: pillowGerman: KissenFrench: oreillerSpanish: almohadaItalian: cuscinoPortuguese: travesseiroWelsh: gobennydd
― Alba, Friday, 14 July 2017 10:51 (six years ago) link
Wow, not only Italian but Portuguese as well! Nice. Interesting that English pillow comes from Latin via Germanic and through Old English. I would never have guessed that pillow and polvo (Spanish for dust) are cognates!
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Friday, 14 July 2017 14:50 (six years ago) link
Full marks! Although is it true that Kissen and cuscino are unrelated?
― Under Heaviside Manners (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 14 July 2017 15:43 (six years ago) link
Well, no... the German comes from Old High German kussīn which is borrowed from Old French cussin with the same Latin root as the Italian cuscino. But it's a winning set because the English and German aren't cognates and Alba found non-cognates in Spanish, Italian, *and* Portuguese which is hard!
PS a good site for looking up etymologies for German words is https://www.dwds.de/ which is in German but can be deciphered using Google translate and a bit of sleuthing to figure out the abbreviations (for example if you look up Kissen there's afrz/ which is Alt französisch or Old French).
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Friday, 14 July 2017 16:06 (six years ago) link
english: pencilgerman: bleistiftfrench: crayonspanish: lapizitalian: matita
portuguese is lapis unfortunately :/
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 14 July 2017 16:27 (six years ago) link
what about pencil?pencil, encrayon, frlapiz, esmatita, itbleistift, de
― Jibe, Wednesday, April 24, 2013 6:53 PM (four years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 14 July 2017 16:35 (six years ago) link
foiled by not pressing "show all messages" before ctrl+fing :c
― -_- (jim in vancouver), Friday, 14 July 2017 16:36 (six years ago) link
Happens to the best of us
― Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 14 July 2017 16:38 (six years ago) link
But you can get there with pen!
English: penGerman: StiftSpanish: bolígrafoPortuguese: canetaFrench: stylo
Italian "penna" being obviously out of the running, Portuguese steps up. The French word comes from English "stylograph" as does the related Spanish "estilógrafo" but "bolígrafo" wasn't borrowed but coined. And I guess if we really wanted to use Italian's "penna" we could go for the British English "biro" instead of "pen"!
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Friday, 14 July 2017 17:14 (six years ago) link
English: knickersFrench: culotteSpanish: bragasGerman: SchlüpferPortuguese: Calcinhas
― Alba, Friday, 14 July 2017 18:54 (six years ago) link
Great thread to stumble on!
IT Negozio E ShopG Laden FR AtelierSP Tienda
― wtev, Sunday, 16 July 2017 10:21 (six years ago) link
I forgot to add the Italian knickers: mutandine!
― Alba, Sunday, 16 July 2017 10:39 (six years ago) link
english: wrenfrench: roiteletitalian: scricciolospanish: reyezueloportuguese: carriçagerman: zaunkönig (means fenceking!) dutch: winterkoninkje (winter-king, so overlaps w/german i guess) danish: gærdesmuttewelsh: drywfinnish: peukaloinen
french, spanish and italian are maybe cognates soundwise tho they don't look it by eye
― mark s, Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:33 (six years ago) link
english: witchfrench: sorcièreitalian: stregaspanish: bruja (portuguese: bruxa)german: hexe (dutch/danish: heks) welsh: wrachfinnish: noita
― mark s, Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:43 (six years ago) link
english: lump (german: klumpen) (welsh: lwmp)french: bosseitalian: grumospanish: terrón portuguese: nódulodutch: brokfinnish: kyhmy
― mark s, Sunday, 16 July 2017 11:55 (six years ago) link
E Billow F Onduler G Bauschen I Flutto SP Ola
― wtev, Monday, 17 July 2017 05:53 (six years ago) link
Great work last month!
Came to post about an amusing German word I just learned is
der Bubikopf
which means1) A bob haircut- German wikipedia features a picture of Louise Brooks2) The plant Soleirolia soleirolii, which has all kinds of names in English
Wondering what amusing names that plant and haircut have in other languages
There is also
der Bubikragen - the Peter Pan collar, wonder what other picturesque names it might have
― When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 20 August 2017 15:42 (six years ago) link
― When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 20 August 2017 15:50 (six years ago) link
Earlier mention of water itt:
Hmm, so how do I interpret the colors for the etymology map of, say, water? Because "eau," "agua," "water/wasser/etc." are correspond to PIE?― Matt Groening's Cousin (Leee), Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM (three years ago) Bookmark Flag Post PermalinkThere are three PIE roots meaning "water" from which contemporary languages derive their terms for water, and each color corresponds to one of them. The shades of each color refer (I am guessing) to terms that have younger common ancestors that ultimately go back to the PIE root.― erry red flag (f. hazel), Monday, November 11, 2013 12:00 PM (three years ago) Bookmark
― Matt Groening's Cousin (Leee), Monday, November 11, 2013 11:50 AM (three years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
There are three PIE roots meaning "water" from which contemporary languages derive their terms for water, and each color corresponds to one of them. The shades of each color refer (I am guessing) to terms that have younger common ancestors that ultimately go back to the PIE root.
― erry red flag (f. hazel), Monday, November 11, 2013 12:00 PM (three years ago) Bookmark
― When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 20 August 2017 15:56 (six years ago) link
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bubikopfhttps://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubikragenhttps://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bubikopf_(Frisur)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soleirolia
― When I Get To The Borad (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 20 August 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link
english: lump (german: klumpen) (welsh: lwmp)french: bosseitalian: grumospanish: terrónportuguese: nódulodutch: brokfinnish: kyhmy
Dammit, French!
english: hideous (german: Scheußlich) (welsh: Yn wych)french: hideuxitalian: orrendospanish: repulsivoportuguese: medonhodutch: afschuwelijkfinnish: hirveä
― Hideous Lump, Monday, 21 August 2017 02:40 (six years ago) link
http://languagehat.com/butterfly/
― Some Dusty in Here (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 3 February 2018 03:17 (six years ago) link
A fun etymology-related game I have been playing lately is to find one of the legion of lists of "untranslatable" words a la this one (which has lovely illustrations):
https://ellafrancessanders.com/untranslatable-words-from-other-cultures/
and the try and find English translations for as many of them as I can, ideally single-word, by looking at rarely used or archaic terms... or simply starting from the assumption that nothing is truly untranslatable between human languages and being poetically obstinate.
for example, the aforementioned list has the Swedish mångata, "the glimmering, road-like reflection that the moon creates on water" which in English is... moonglade! Which the OED first attests back in 1867.
I find a bit of googling the untranslatable words to be helpful to establish they really mean what the lists say they do, some are just flat-out wrong.
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 31 January 2019 23:14 (five years ago) link
and then, not and the...
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Thursday, 31 January 2019 23:15 (five years ago) link
Oh, that is a cool endeavour. Please post more if you're up for it.
― emil.y, Thursday, 31 January 2019 23:16 (five years ago) link
We have a Finnish word for the same concept as mångata too, it's "kuunsilta", literally "moon's bridge".
― Tuomas, Thursday, 31 January 2019 23:24 (five years ago) link
i love it!! moonglade!
also reminds me of the grant hart song you're the moonglade, but you're not the moonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTH4Zu8gleA
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 1 February 2019 00:43 (five years ago) link
Japanese: KomorebiThis is the word the Japanese have for when sunlight filters through the trees - the interplay between the light and the leaves
- surely this is 'dappling'
― frame casual (dog latin), Friday, 1 February 2019 01:18 (five years ago) link
ooh, excellent idea LL!
along those lines, there is komorebi (木漏れ日) "sunlight that filters through the leaves of trees".
for this I would go with sun-dappled, which is an adjective and not a noun but brings us the same visceral image:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQbm2L9hKSs
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 1 February 2019 01:29 (five years ago) link
(haha, xpost!)
what about pencil?pencil, encrayon, frlapiz, esmatita, itbleistift, de― Jibe, Wednesday, April 24, 2013 6:53 PM (four years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― nathom, Friday, 1 February 2019 10:05 (five years ago) link
Could the Indonesian 'jayus' be… an 'anti-joke'?
― pomenitul, Friday, 1 February 2019 11:25 (five years ago) link
On second thought, 'anti-joke' adds intent to the equation, so it's not quite the same thing.
― pomenitul, Friday, 1 February 2019 11:38 (five years ago) link
En: Fr: taille-crayonEs: sacapuntasIt: affilacoltelliDe:Spitzer
― Your dad's Carlos Boozer and you keep him alive (fionnland), Friday, 1 February 2019 12:29 (five years ago) link
Hit enter too bloody soon, English is sharpener, unsurprisingly following on from pencils above
― Your dad's Carlos Boozer and you keep him alive (fionnland), Friday, 1 February 2019 12:30 (five years ago) link
Actually I think pencil sharpener is temperamatita in Italian too
― Your dad's Carlos Boozer and you keep him alive (fionnland), Friday, 1 February 2019 12:31 (five years ago) link
The etymology of Italian's matita for pencil is interesting, apparently it's from ematite, or hematite, which they used for writing? Apparently there is a ton of hematite on Elba, compared to the giant graphite deposit found in England in the 16th century... which leads us to (mistakenly) call the stuff in pencils lead!
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 1 February 2019 15:28 (five years ago) link
I always get confusion with that and a certain Tom Jobim lyric.
― Only a Factory URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 1 February 2019 17:00 (five years ago) link
hahaha, my first impression of temperamatita was "what? paint killer?"
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 1 February 2019 17:17 (five years ago) link
en: toad - From Middle English tode, toode, tade, tadde, from Old English *tāde, a shortening of tādie, tādiġe (“toad”), of unknown origin, possibly from Proto-Germanic. Cognate with Scots tade, taid, taed, ted (“toad”). Compare also Danish tudse (“toad”), possibly from the same root; also Swedish tåssa, tossa (“toad”), Old English tāxe (“toad”), Old English tosca (“toad”) by contrast.
fr: crapaud - Probably from Frankish *krappō, *krappa (“hook”) (because of a toad’s hooked feet) + -aud. Compare Catalan gripau, Occitan, grapaut.
es: sapo - Unknown, possibly from Iberian, cognate with Basque apo.
it: rospo - Uncertain, possibly of Germanic origin
de: kröte - From Middle High German krotte, kröte, krëte, from Old High German chrota, krota, kreta (“toad”), from Proto-Germanic *krudō, *kredō (“toad”), from Proto-Indo-European *guredʰ- (“toad”). Cognate with Middle Low German krōde (“toad”), dated Dutch krodde (“toad”).
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 1 February 2019 21:59 (five years ago) link
what's the word for toad-sharpener in Italian?
― the girl from spirea x (f. hazel), Friday, 1 February 2019 22:11 (five years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOCxplCFYCEhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erIxsjOAKc4
― Only a Factory URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 1 February 2019 23:17 (five years ago) link
This is very close but slightly unsatisfactory
en: raccoonsp: mapachefr: raton laveurde: Waschbär
because the German and the French both have the idea of washing, and Spanish has the term "oso lavador," not sure which term is more common in Peninsular vs. American Spanish. But we also have
it: procionept: guaxinim
― Only a Factory URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 9 February 2019 13:10 (five years ago) link
My wife who's from Costa Rica says she's never heard the name "oso lavador", mapache is the only word for raccoon she knows.In Finnish we call it "pesukarhu", which also means "wash bear". Probably comes from German via Swedish, as raccoons don't live here, so we wouldn't have an "indigenous" word for them.
― Tuomas, Sunday, 10 February 2019 11:05 (five years ago) link
en: spatses: polainasfr: guêtresde: Gamaschen
is ruined slightly by French origin of "gaiters" and by the fact that spats are short and gaiters are long, whereas afaik the same word is used for both in other languages, or really only for the long form.
― TS: “8:05” vs. “905” (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 18 August 2019 20:52 (four years ago) link
(En) bird(Es) pájaro (Fr) oiseau (De) Vogel(It) uccello
― The Hillbilly Chespirito (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 September 2019 10:18 (four years ago) link
Oiseau and uccello both come from the same Latin word, aucellus.
― Tuomas, Thursday, 26 September 2019 11:07 (four years ago) link
Was wondering. But the first four seem to work, I think.
― The Hillbilly Chespirito (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 26 September 2019 11:43 (four years ago) link