What's the best Genesis album?

I love how Abacab sounds like Genesis running into Simple Minds and The Teardrop Explodes in a crowded thoroughfare.

(Specifically referencing those bands' contemporaneous material there)

Abacab is a patchy follow-up to Duke, IMO

it's not

and 'No Reply At All' would benefit by having the obnoxious horns removed from it

god the next sentence was even worse

imo the fenix horns pretty much never sound tacky, they act as sharp punctuation wherever they're employed?

I love how Abacab sounds like Genesis running into Simple Minds and The Teardrop Explodes in a crowded thoroughfare.

― Tim F, Wednesday, July 12, 2017 9:20 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is indeed what it sounds like, but the end result isn't as great as that description sounds because the material isn't quite there, whereas on Duke not only did they manage to incorporate elements of New Wave into their sound successfully, but they managed to balance it with their progressive tendencies and they managed to write a set of wall-to-wall very good to great material, powerfully played and impeccably produced.

It has its highlights, but it's definitely a weaker Genesis record.

Relistened to "Invisible Touch" today after reading all the reappraisals on the IT thread and...yikes. Outside of "Tonight..." I can'tt get with its über-mid-80s digi-production at all. I remembered that's when I had stopped caring.

The "uber-mid '80s digi-production" is part of the reason I like the album so much - another reason is that there's not a dud track on it!

Now that the connection has occurred to me I am very curious to know what a Brab thinks of Sons and Fascination.

sympathetic to capitaine jay vee's experience of invisible touch; the other day i was listening to it and was kinda annoyed at the digital space in which the songs unfold bc it made the more atmospheric sections of songs sound thin and distant. weirdly this was most pronounced during "tonight..." could've just been my mood at the time as obv i love ultra-synthetic production, unreal crystalline approximations of "real" instruments revolving coldly in an artificial environment 4ever, that's the stuff

i have never heard a simple minds record tim

xpost:

A connection between Genesis and Simple Minds occurred to me before, but weirdly the other way around - the bassline to 'In Trance As Mission' has always reminded me of the riff of the 'Apocalypse' section of 'Supper's Ready' ... I wonder if the early Minds were Gabriel-era Genesis fans?

but that'll change soon! xp

OMG Brad it must!

Given SM got Steve Hillage to produce S&F I wouldn't be surprised if they were British prog fans more generally.

I look forward to Brad being the only person on ILM to like 'Belfast Child' ...

I am a huge fan of slick '80s production in many cases ("Cupid & Psyche 85", Brian Ferry's solo stuff of the decade, anything ZTT/ Trevor Horn, etc). but I'm with ToddBonzalez re: the airless digital space the songs exist in here. Plus there's a pronounced nasal shrillness to Phil's voice on this album that grates.

I don't really notice any big difference in Phil's voice on this album, except that he was a far more accomplished singer by that point and had better control over his voice!

The endless plain of digispace + Collins' decision to shout = an often grating experience. It ruins "Tonight, Tonight Tonight" and "Anything She Does" for me.

lol "plane"

'Tonight, Tonight, Tonight' is perfect, IMO. Can't fault Collins' passionate vocal performance on that at all.

"the endless plane of digispace" is my favorite john cale song

that's what I had in mind

Tonight x 3's rain of pain falls on an endless plain

I recall being profoundly disappointed with abacab upon its release and I still tend to value the post-Duke material much less than what came earlier. But wow, I wasn't aware of the resistance they faced on their 1981 tour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8d3-CKPupM

I wonder if the early Minds were Gabriel-era Genesis fans

they were never shy about it either
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n760wQHFVOo&t=2m14s
2m14s

that may have not worked: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n760wQHFVOo

is there a reason why The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway is not on Spotify but everything else is?

Yeah, it's a bit strange how Genesis fans reacted badly to the band trying different things, whereas Rush had no problem bringing their audience with them. But then from '81-'85 Rush were putting out far better material.

whereas Rush had no problem bringing their audience with them

idk, it's been a while since i watched the rush doc but this is not my impression of how it went down

They might have lost a few fans who disliked their move from hard rock to progressive rock, or disliked the shorter songs and New Wave elements or disliked stuff like Hold Your Fire, but generally Rush were always perceived as a band that, no matter what they did, they did it with their integrity fully intact and cultivated a very dedicated fanbase who would follow them no matter what.

With Genesis, the audience is far more divided.

Genesis lost their original lead singer/songwriter and lead guitarist. Those are pretty drastic changes.

If anything, I feel like there is more continuity between Gabriel-era Genesis and the early solo Gabriel albums than between the Gabriel era and the Collins era. Rush always sounded like Lee, Lifeson, and Peart.

I've tried so hard to love let alone like Simple Minds beyond "New Gold Dream" and "Glittering Prize." Jim Kerr is the wrong kind of pompous, with colleagues to match.

Peter Gabriel was never the "lead" songwriter or driving force at any point... this is one of the reasons why he left! The only LP where all the lyrics are his is on Lamb ... before that, he would mostly sing what he was given by Mike and Tony, and it was similar for Collins on the post-Gabriel albums. Even later on when Phil started writing more it was a couple of tracks at best.

Rush sales remained steady (they were automatic platinum for much of the eighties) but you should see the band's faces in recent years as they've learned that millions of fans love if not prefer New World Man Rush. I'm not sure even the band loved the synths.

It's worth noting also that Hackett also left because Genesis was the Banks'n'Rutherford show... always was!

Rush sales remained steady (they were automatic platinum for much of the eighties) but you should see the band's faces in recent years as they've learned that millions of fans love if not prefer New World Man Rush. I'm not sure even the band loved the synths.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:33 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'm sure they did, or they wouldn't have done it.

seeing Rush twice in the 2000s felt like, whatever happened at the time, any old divides have long since healed, and everything as new wavey as "Time Stand Still" as proggy as "Cygnus X-1" or as meat and potatoes 70s hard rock as "Fly by Night" or "Working Man" all go down great with the multi-generational crowd

was my impression that Lifeson was a bit of a holdout on the synths and that direction was more Geddy and Peart, but I think that's just he felt like his role was being marginalized

I'm sure they did, or they wouldn't have done it.

― The Anti-Climax Blues Band (Turrican),

Not necessarily. Market accommodations. I'm not saying it was the only reason, and if it were the only reason the music is nevertheless terrific.

Admittedly, I listen to Lamb the most but you have to acknowledge that a lead singer and lead guitarist are pretty important in defining a rock band's sound.xps

Rush went deeper into synths than they would have needed to in order to accommodate the early 80s rock market, surely. I got the impression that Lee was really intense and passionate about synths?

xxpost:

It wasn't market accomodations - they were listening to The Police, Ultravox etc., liked what they heard and made music influenced by what they were hearing - y'know, like musicians do.

Alfred I think you are wrong, Geddy was super into the Taurus pedals...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8uWrP1uD9U

But it's not a binary. Musicians have complex motives. Synthesizers and short songs were popular, and The Police were making music they like. Of course Rush would say, "Hmm, let's give it a go."

But I give up.

Admittedly, I listen to Lamb the most but you have to acknowledge that a lead singer and lead guitarist are pretty important in defining a rock band's sound.xps
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Thursday, July 13, 2017 6:41 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Gabriel has an immediately identifiable voice, but Collins is as close as you can get to Gabriel vocally without actually being Gabriel that it's not much of an issue, really. Gabriel blossomed creatively in his solo career, but in Genesis he wasn't the driving force at all - 'Watcher of the Skies' would have turned out near enough the same if Phil had sung it.

In Genesis's case, the departure of key members at least provides a symbolic basis for drawing battle lines. It gives an easy shorthand for naming the different eras and stating one's preferences. That might account for the appearance of a rift, though it's hard to estimate actual numbers here, i.e. how much of the early fanbase dropped off. I know my mom and uncle kept buying the albums.

The hilarious thing about Soto's comments, re: Rush and synths is that... well, he does realise Rush were using 'em as far back as 2112, right? And they feature heavily on A Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres, too. Bizarre for a band that "don't like synths" and are only using 'em to sell records...

I actually think the first glimmers of new wave/post punk in Rush musically begins really prior to their embrace of synths with Hemispheres, like the chiming guitar figure around the minute mark in La Villa Strangiato, the chorus of Circumstances, quite a bit of the early section of Cygnus X-1: Book II: Hemispheres...

Lifeson is switching to a more chorus, Roland-y type guitar tone and there's an angularity (don't shoot me for using that word) to some of the riffs that seems influenced by new music coming out. Though they are still working primarily in "70s Rush" mode, it feels transitional.

Which is to say this is prior to the first Police album, not to say the Police didn't end up being a big influence but they were moving out of the 70s mode already

The hilarious thing about Soto's comments, re: Rush and synths is that... well, he does realise Rush were using 'em as far back as 2112, right? And they feature heavily on A Farewell to Kings and Hemispheres, too. Bizarre for a band that "don't like synths" and are only using 'em to sell records...

Oh I'm aware. Rush were like Queen that way circa The Game. And I hear things on Hemipsheres that presage what was to come.

Well, to be clear, if you watch the documentary from 2010 or 2011 the band still looks as if they have to mind that they eschewed the prog starting in 1981 (I don't think they did, as any casual listen to "Middletown Dreams" shows). Call it a signal to the older fans (whom I know) who went along with the synths because it was Rush and the eighties but sure weren't happy about it.

xpost:

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that, and it goes a long way towards explaining why it's my go-to Rush album!

Rush gave up on 20 minute sides after Hemispheres but the prog elements in their sound didn't end there, or after 1981 for that matter...