King Crimson: Classic Or Dud

I thought Jakko was much better this time around. I thoroughly enjoyed them although as before I still have no idea what Reiflin was doing onstage.

in the middle of Radical's "Construkction" which I really like (2000 album is much much better than Thrak in my view) but man, the FLUTE!!!! Mel's sax is fine, but good grief the flute is sone shit that should stay in 1972…

idk I think it's kinda cool for KC to be bringing back the flutes and 'trons and doing the "what if we wrote this in the 70's" thing. the new "VROOOM" is pretty interesting. wish they did more of that sort of thing.

When I listened to Radical Action a couple times I couldn't shake the blahh eminating from Jakko's voice. Everything else is on point. It's sad that vocals have such an important role in my opinion of this current iteration, because I really can't shake them off. Boringness seethes through his teethe.

yeah at this point I'm enjoying Radical (On "Pictures of A City" presently) only to think that since Fripp doesn't like Sinfield's poesy, they should have played vocal melodies on one instrument or another. Jakko is too much a super fan.

I liked the Poseidon stuff the best from my couple listens.

yeah I think the "Pictures of a City" take on there is the best one I've ever heard

I'm far from a superfan (the last album I bought was Discipline but I loved them up to that point.) I just watched a recent vid of "Easy Money" and was blown away. I don't get the kvetching about Jakko's voice at all; this is exactly what I would want a KC show in 2017 to sound like. Setlists look fantastic to me too, I'm kinda kicking myself for not making the effort to go.

I'm seriously considering trying for a press ticket for one of the Red Bank shows.

Jakko is probably the "best" vocalist KC has had since Greg Lake, although his voice is fairly unremarkable and without character.

idk I think Adrian is a pretty good singer

I really wish they had just gone the Projekct route and had these guys all gather to make a racket and improvise.

that element is sorely needed by this group. and with the assembled talent you'd think it has the potential to be ferocious

It's kind of weird. Fripp has assembled this cool motley crew, but this is the first time the band is (more or less) looking backward.

also occurred to me that KC is the only band of the movement with no dedicated keyboardist. Mcdonald, Cross and Fripp only messed with mellotron secondarily, Tippett didn't join and Rieflin is the first one, really.

― veronica moser

ehhh, i'm not sure if i'd go _that_ far. after the moody blues, king crimson are pretty much the definitive mellotron prog band. they had two mellotrons on stage _and_ pete sinfield with his vcs. they never went full-on synth like all the other prog bands, true, but "no dedicated keyboardist" is a technicality.

that element is sorely needed by this group. and with the assembled talent you'd think it has the potential to be ferocious

― Max-Headroom-drops-a-deuce-while-shredding (Sparkle Motion)

yeah they could be the biggest ass-kickers in the retirement home

fripp got old. it was bound to happen sometime. him sitting huddled in the corner in an afghan held it off for many years, but guys i think he's just not cool anymore.

https://img.discogs.com/Kdr-azKI389TeHum1YYPLC06GL4=/fit-in/600x600/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():quality(90)/discogs-images/R-2353869-1279883912.jpeg.jpg
p sure he's never been cool, still love the man and his music

He was definitely cool when he was hanging out with Blondie and Talking Heads in New York.

i have a framed black and white print of that photo. i need to remember to put it up at work.

loooool

WTF, this thread the last two days.

"Fripp got old"? Seriously?

It's kind of weird. Fripp has assembled this cool motley crew, but this is the first time the band is (more or less) looking backward.

Don't get me wrong – I belatedly fell in love with the Projekts-era/double duo band. Mastelotto in particular is amazing on those recordings. And I'm still warming up to all of Jakko's vocals. But people here make it sound like this band is going thru the motions opening for Jock Bartley's Firefall or something. Between Collins' jazzbo honking, the three-headed drum shit, and Fripp tearing it up at 71—all over these very classy-sounding arrangements—there is some pretty intense music happening here.

I've put in a press ticket request for the first night in Red Bank (a week from Sunday). Haven't heard back yet, but if I go there'll be a long review on Burning Ambulance afterward.

I'll admit that I was a little far gone by the time they hit Prince Rupert Awakes but in the midst of the chaos I had a "what the fuck am I listening to" moment as if I were hearing the music for the first time again. It pretty much ruled.

Love the harmonies on the first minute or so of "sailor's tale"

Fripp's side of his dispute with Belew: https://www.dgmlive.com/diaries/Robert%20Fripp/RF_diary_2017_August_22

fripp is such a fasincatingly terrible writer

Adrian’s concern prompted a telephone conversation between Adrian, Martha Belew, Adrian’s de facto manager, in Mount Juliet and David Singleton, King Crimson manager / minister, in KC’s Denver Hotel-Quite-Acceptable on June 23rd. 2017 (nominally a day off).

Passive aggressive much?

Anyway, Fripp is a dick but he has a point. How come KC can't play stuff that Belew worked on, but Belew can play KC stuff that Fripp co-wrote? Regardless, sounds like Belew quitting was more acrimonious than it was initially made out to be, which is clearly coloring everything that has come after.

seems like, whether bob has the moral and legal right to play that music, Bob and Ade agreed that he wouldn't. That should be the end of it, and Bob doesn't want to say why he didn't honor it.

my friend interviewed adrian and Stewart C. the other day re: the thus far not great sounding new band (I damn sure am going to go see Adrian and Stewart play on the same stage), and Stewart did not let Ade get a word in edgewise, so they didn't discuss the matter with Bob.

I saw KC like 10 times btwn 1995-2003, and am excited to see 'em again in Nov for the first time since then, even if I think Jakko is pretty suck-ass and, like JiC said awhile ago, is like "OMG OMG I'm in my favorite band" and is tricking Bob into playing shitty Lizard and Islands material (but not "a Sailor's Tale"?).

It's hard to tell who to believe, especially now that we know the split was somewhat acrimonious. Sounds almost like Belew made demands and, when he didn't get them, he quit, so Fripp figured (disingenuously?) any verbal agreement was null?

The telephone conversation between Adrian and myself (September 9th. 2013), which ended with Adrian believing us to have an agreement, was more monologue than dialogue: dudgeon was high, grapes were sour. Adrian made an opening statement, followed by three demands, and a final declaration (that Adrian was not prepared to be The Eighth Man, and was quitting the band).

which is it: ade left cuz he didn't want to be the eighth man (by which this must mean that he did not want to be deemphasized?) or bob said "you're not right for this rendition of KC."

initially the latter seemed accurate, but I think Fripp was being cagey. Adrian was not a good match for the band, because he did not want to be the 8th man.

it really seems weird that at this stage, with this many players, Fripp is suddenly claiming to be splitting everything equally.

??? When has he not?

has he always claimed that?

"ade left cuz he didn't want to be the eighth man (by which this must mean that he did not want to be deemphasized?) "

it's money; adrian wanted everyone but him and fripp to be paid as sidemen. fripp also says in there that he demanded this in 82, and again several years ago. I'm surprised that Levin and Mastoletto play with him on the side (they do the Crimson Project thing once or twice a year) given all of that.

It's always money. But then, this I imagine is KCs longest, most lucrative tour in forever, so more money.

another thing: I don't think this tour would be doing as well as it is with adrian. people have had 20/30 years of adrian KC, this is different and providing something people have really wanted to hear for a long time.

Belew coming across as a sourpuss here

https://youtu.be/eEJfIRkaZBg?t=1034

I'm a fan of all King Crimson line-ups and have an unusual favourite in Islands - which is one of my all-time favourite albums-, Lizard comes second for me.
So I'm really happy to see Fripp revisiting those songs. I've seen the current KC incarnation live a couple of years ago and loved it, obviously especially Sailor's Tale and The Letters.
Looking at recent setlist I see that they now also started playing the title track (also Lizard's title track and Cirkus). I really want to see them again now!

It's a shame that things are weird with Adrian now, though. He's done amazing work in the band and has been a key player for a long time. But at least he does admit still having some love for Fripp in that interview.

"Singer/guitarist who has failed to deliver upon the tremendous promise of a past project starts making crazy demands on present and future plans for that past project" is a dynamic I am way familiar with and a tale as old as time, and passive-aggressive or not, I am leaning toward Fripp's side here.

(The above was a secret message to old school emo fans who know.)

Belew coming across as a sourpuss here

https://youtu.be/eEJfIRkaZBg?t=1034

so which is it, was Belew just unceremoniously sacked, or was he unwilling to be the 8th man on stage? because I've heard it both ways.

Fripp is kinda oafish about this as always but whatever, it *is* his band and besides, kinda lame of Adrian to insist that they don't play his stuff onstage, when his set consists of a bunch of 80's KC material. I mean who cares.

Sounds like both. Belew and Fripp had a conversation, Fripp asked Belew if he wanted to be involved, Belew said something like yeah, but not as a sideman, since I wrote a lot of our stuff, so if I have to be a sideman I'd just as soon not do it and please don't play those songs. No way to know (though at this rate we might find out), but it sounds like in Belew's mind (and there is no way to know the tone of the conversation) that he explained himself. And then basically Fripp called his bluff and said, OK, Adrian and Fripp are not working together in this incarnation. To which Belew no doubt thought, fine, be that way, so I guess that means he's not playing my stuff. Which KC didn't - the first couple of legs. But now that stuff is sneaking in, and Below probably feels doubly betrayed. Like, Fripp can do whatever he wants, but it does sound like he maybe broke a friendly agreement, which makes things less friendly. Which is sort of ironic, since Fripp has been a squeaky wheel about contracts and rights and stuff like that for decades.

after seeing them on the first Elements tour, I thought Neurotica would be well suited to the way they were doing the songs, so I was glad to hear it. I haven't heard the new take on Indiscipline, but it strikes me as a weird choice. I guess if we hear Mel Collins tooting out 'babble, burble, brouhaha' then it's really a middle finger to Ade.

"Fripp asked Belew if he wanted to be involved"

actually, no, Fripp told him this KC wasn't for him, but he could remain as the '8th man' ie: in waiting for another iteration to come along, as Tony did at some point.

Belew coming across as a sourpuss here
https://youtu.be/eEJfIRkaZBg?t=1034

It's a shame that things are weird with Adrian now, though. He's done amazing work in the band and has been a key player for a long time. But at least he does admit still having some love for Fripp in that interview.

passive-aggressive or not, I am leaning toward Fripp's side here.

I generally agree w all of this and won't repeat what others have said here. It's a bummer that these two are having these problems so publicly. Perhaps inevitable given that it sounds like Belew and Fripp have had some of these issues going on 30 years. But for instance, Fripp actually crashes in the basement of Belew's house/studio when they are working together, recording or preparing for a tour. They are very close, which I think made it particularly hard on Belew to be told he wouldn't be a featured member of the current lineup.

I will say: you do almost get the sense, however, that Belew doesn't quite understand (or perhaps Fripp didn't really tell him) why he wouldn't have been right for singing songs from Lizard, etc. It's almost like Belew was like, "Ok, if I'm not right to sing *your* songs, you won't sing any of *mine.*" And, of course, that doesn't quite add up, as Fripp was present for the creation of all these songs -- and Belew wasn't (IIRC, Fripp didn't have a co-write on "ItCock").

At any rate, I have been going through a huge ProjeKcts and 'Aughts-era KC phase of late and am really looking forward to the fall tour. But you hope they work something out. Or at least, as Singleton suggested, they stop negotiating all this via social media.

I can't believe 2 old guys would behave this way