Batman carries on beginning in ... The Dark Knight

Most exciting trailer yet.

Nah. First trailer beats it by a mile, for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that most of the good lines in the new trailer are recycled from the first trailer (tho I'll grant you the greatness of the "This town is mine now" line when The Joker and Batman are face-to-face, which appears in the new trailer for the first time).

When did the rules on posthumous Oscar noms change? (I guess that's directed to you, jaymc.) I know Peter Finch had to die between being nominated and awarded to do it for Network.

Nah. First trailer beats it by a mile

I admit I'm heavily influenced by the manipulative use of DRAMATIC MUSIC.

I think Finch died just so he could get the Oscar.

I think its pretty cool that, other than the final shot of the last movie, there hasn't been a lot of "That's the JOKER." "I'm the JOKER." or "My name's The JOKER."

Kind of like a meeting b/t Batsy and an inevitability that doesn't need to be named explicitly.

I am SO f-ing excited for this flick.

yeah this still looks absolutely astounding to me

If it's anything like the previous one, I'm anticipating a juicy ILE debate about it.

Very true. I appreciate how comics engender such fervent discussions here. Means we all had at least a modicum of fun as kids.

I can't wait until Morbius sees it.

I hope Tim Burton sees it and gets Johnny Depp to cut his throat for him.

...that might be a little harsh.

Means we all had at least a modicum of fun as kids.

Haha, but probably not much as teenagers.

Morbius won't watch this, who are you kiddin Alfred. (Unless Morbz has secret mancrush on Ledger that I don't know about)

Naw. Jack Twist owns his "heart."

I'm really excited for it, etc. but am I also the only person who gets disheartened with people's fervid enthusiasm for seeing yet another actor playing the flamboyant psychopath role? The fact Ledger admitted the Malcolm McDowell/Alex influence makes it harder for me to hear people go on about it and wonder how much of this isn't based on typical "live-vicariously-through-the-hip-murderer" fantasy.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_movies_blog/2008/07/dark-knight-the.html

first 5 minutes. amaze!!

old news. Catch up!!

was Two Face in the comic and supposed to be in the movie or am I thinking of the other Batman graphic novel with Joker and Batman coming back from retirement?

This new movie != an adaptation of the Miller comic. (But Two-Face was in The Dark Knight Returns, yes.)

In this movie Aaron Eckhart plays the prosecutor Harvey Dent, who will become Two-Face, though I'm not sure how prominently Two-Face will be featured in the movie. He was quite prominent in The Long Halloween, which I think this movie is partially based on.

My guess is Dark Knight will only give us Two-Face's origin story (since in the trailers Eckhart is only shown as Dent, not as Two-Face), and he will be a more prominent villain in the possible future Batman movies.

I seem to recall speculation that Joker was more of a supporting character in this flick and Two-Face was the surprise for opening day. I expect that if that was true say, at new years, a re-edit made for a big difference.

iirc, in trad comics lore the Joker instrumental in Dent becoming Two-Face, so it makes sense that this second one would give the spotlight to the Joker and set-up Two-Face for the next movie.

Was Two-Face a marquee villian in the Batman comics? My impression was always that the A-List villians for Batman were, in order, The Joker, Penguin, and The Riddler. After that, my impression was that everyone was B-List or below.

Yeah, that's my recollection of the relationship between Joker and Dent too. Maybe some bigger Batman buff can confirm if this is true?

(x-post)

The Riddler didn't become a prominent villain before the 60s TV series, and I don't think he's been very popular in the comics ever since. Two-Face is certainly more of a A List villain.

More than The Riddler? I'm completely out-of-the-loop, apparently.

I think it was originally some random jerk who acid-faced Harvey, but later it got retconned to Joker.

edit - yeah, way more than Riddler. Two Face's gimmick is you can never tell what he's going to do, cause of that damn coin. Riddler's gimmick is that he tells you what he's going to do with some mildly clever word play. you tell me which is more resonant.

anyone know if Scarecrow will make an appearance? He was never caught in Begins, and i wouldn't mind seeing Cillian Murphy again.

The problem with The Riddler I think is that he's too close to The Joker. Two-Face is a more interesting villain, because he's basically a good guy turned bad due to the trauma of having his face disfigured, and this good/bad duality in him can be used to a good effect if done by a proper writer.

Yeah, he's an obvious Joker ripoff, only totally defanged.

anyone know if Scarecrow will make an appearance? He was never caught in Begins, and i wouldn't mind seeing Cillian Murphy again.

I read someplace that he's in the film, but "if you blink you'll miss him."

Two-Face has always been a really significant villain for Batman - and its easy to see why he would be attractive for serious treatment, the concept behind him (as with the Joker) is way stronger than the Penguin or the Riddler.

(altho I do think that the one thing Burton did well with the Batman franchise was make the Penguin a great, interesting villain with a compelling backstory)

Oh, I liked the Burton franchise. I thought M. Keaton was a great choice for Batman (and, these days, unfairly maligned for his work in the role). C. Bale is v. good, too, obv.

the Riddler is so goddamned silly, there's no real way you can make him genuinely frightening or compelling. definitely a holdover from campy 60s Batman (which I love, but he wouldn't fit at all into this current incarnation)

I read someplace that he's in the film, but "if you blink you'll miss him."

good enough for me.

re Two-Face: the most interesting aspect of the Two-Face as a villain is really the fact that Dent and Wayne were friends before his disfigurement and eventual fall. The animated series (seriously best batman ever) did really well with this, I hope the movie does as well.

Some feel that the Riddler's elevation by the 60s series was never truly deserved, and in recent years he's been treated by some writers as little more than a joke. The 90s cartoon version of the character was great though.

I've never come across any reference to the Joker being responsible for Harvey becoming Two-Face. It's usually attributed to Sal "the Boss" Maroni, a mobster.

Robin: (pointing toward the sky) That crazy missile! It wrote two more riddles before it blew up!
Batman: (reading a skywritten message) "What goes up white and comes down yellow and white?"
Robin: An egg!
Batman: (reading another skywritten message) "How do you divide seventeen apples among sixteen people?"
Robin: Make apple sauce!
Batman: (thinking out loud) Apples into applesauce - A unification into one smooth mixture. An egg - nature's perfect container. The container of all our hopes for the future.
Robin: A unification and a container of hope? United World Organization!
Batman: Precisely, Robin! And there's a special meeting of the Security Council today.

the riddler is some bullshit

The animated series (seriously best batman ever)

^^^realness

they did an amazing job with Clayface too

I've never come across any reference to the Joker being responsible for Harvey becoming Two-Face. It's usually attributed to Sal "the Boss" Maroni, a mobster.

yeah you know I may have just mixed this up with advance stuff I read about the new movie

I agree with Esq: Joker, Penguin, Riddler are the top 3

riddler would be way more compelling if he was a murderous sphinx played by will shortz

from wikipedia:

The Riddler's criminal modus operandi is so deeply ingrained into his personality that he is virtually powerless to stop himself from acting it out. He cannot simply kill his opponents when he has the upper hand; he has to put them in a deathtrap to see if he can devise a life and death intellectual challenge that the hero cannot solve and escape. However, unlike many of Batman's themed enemies, Riddler's compulsion is quite flexible, allowing him to commit any crime as long as he can describe it in a riddle or puzzle. He often has two female assistants, named Query and Echo. His name, Edward Nigma, is a pun on the word enigma, which means riddle or mystery (Edward Nigma: E. Nigma).

In his very first appearance, Nigma was depicted as an employee of a carnival who enjoyed cheating his customers out of their money with his bizarre puzzles and mindgames, most of which were rigged in his favor. He soon finds himself longing for greater challenges and thrills, and dons the guise of the Riddler to challenge Batman, whom he believes could possibly be a worthy adversary for him.

Some notable writers, such as Alex Ross and Shane McCarthy, have suggested that the Riddler's compulsion stems from parental abuse that he endured as a child. After scoring high on some important tests in school, his father, unable to grasp the fact that his son was brilliant, beat him out of envy. This, in theory, left him with a strong internal desire to tell the truth, and prove his innocence. This desire manifests itself in the form of his obsession with riddles.

sounds fuckin lame

The animated series (seriously best batman ever)

I agree. I can't remember all the episodes but I do remember Scarecrow being seriously badass, which left me a bit upset with the last Batman movie because the scarecrow didn't do half the scare tactics he did in the tv show. (he gave batman the fear of heights when he was fighting on a balcony at the top of a stadium (with a bomb), and I think he made people see giant bugs and shit).

Anyone remember the episode where batman is at a graveyard and he gets trapped in some lethal tomb as a trick. And there are like tons of traps in the graveyard. Who was that villain?

Also, the tv show had the stupid villains that were just big tough guys that knew shit. I remember an episode where one of these guys is playing poker with all the great villains. I found the pairing to be quite funny.

they did an amazing job with Clayface too

Who is this Clayface of whom you speak? Is he the D.C. Comics version of Marvel Comic's The Sandman?

Pretty close, yeah. He's got some extra powers, too - chameleon stuff, mainly.

Clayface a bit more fucked up psychologically than the Sandman

this one in particular is who I was thinking of:

The third Clayface, Preston Payne, first appeared in Detective Comics #478. Suffering from hyperpituitarism, Payne works at S.T.A.R. Labs searching for a cure. He obtains a sample of the then-living Matt Hagen's blood, and isolates an enzyme which he introduces into his own bloodstream. Although he is briefly able to shape his own appearance, this effect is short-lived: while on a date, his flesh begins to melt, and when he touches his horrified girlfriend, she completely melts. Payne builds an exoskeleton anti-melting suit to prevent himself from touching anyone, but he learns that he needs to spread his melting contagion onto others to survive (he feels pain if he doesn't melt anyone). During this time his mental health starts to slip as he falls in love with a wax mannequin he names "Helena", (appearing in Batman Annual #11) thinking she is the only woman immune to his touch. After another breakdown, he thinks Helena enjoys watching men "fighting over her" when he battles Batman yet again in front of the wax doll. Although he doesn't give her up, he keeps her in Arkham Asylum, saying "we're both too polite to admit divorce, but she can't live forever".

Too cheesy for this dark Batman franchise, I think. But I'm not too hopeful about Two-Face, either (Tommy Lee Jones really soured me on that villian).