Hillary Clinton: Classic or Dud?

Interviewing prisoners for their thoughts wouldn't really change anything. It's like every American work questionnaire - having no vacation and struggling blows but it beats dying in the gutter.

I'm sure the prisoners preferred working for the Clintons to breaking rocks - doesn't make either even remotely acceptable.

one of the differences is that when you work for a public institution you are beholden to the state. what was upsetting with this was that they were charged with an additional authority over the workers. they could report them for breaking rules and have them sent back to prison and likely disciplined if they didn't make these those two happy. this is pretty different from following rules in a public prison. much more easy to abuse this newfound authority. if you look at circa scandals like Paula Jones or the Iraq Air strike to divert attention from the Lewinsky trials, there is a pattern of abusing authority. if you were a prisoner who accidentally saw somebody doing some illegal shit (and working w politicans for decades you probably would) it seems like it you may make some powerful enemies.

this is mostly conjecture tho. the casualness of it is the disturbing thing. it would be interesting to interview these people, maybe they were great family friends and it was a way to legit get out of a cycle of imprisonment. it depends on how much you trust the Clintons, i suppose.

That's mindblowingly stupid.

Let's not forget that Killary had Seth Rich killed, so who knows what she did to these guys...

Fred you could probably be a big enough smug c*** to be a Clinton with a little ambition

According to Jones's account, on May 8, 1991, she was escorted to Clinton's (then Governor of Arkansas) room in the Excelsior (now Little Rock Marriott) Hotel in Little Rock, Arkansas, where he propositioned and exposed himself to her. She claimed she kept quiet about the incident until 1994, when a David Brock story in the American Spectator magazine printed an account. Jones filed a sexual harassment suit against Clinton on May 6, 1994, two days before the three-year statute of limitations, and sought $750,000 in damages.

Clinton and his defense team then challenged Jones' right to bring a civil lawsuit against a sitting president for an incident that occurred prior to the defendant becoming president. The Clinton defense team took the position that the trial should be delayed until the president was no longer in office, because the job of the president is unique and does not allow him to take time away from it to deal with a private civil lawsuit. The case went through the courts, eventually reaching the Supreme Court on January 13, 1997. On May 27, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled against Clinton, and allowed the lawsuit to proceed. Clinton dismissed Jones's story and agreed to move on with the lawsuit.

On April 2, 1998, before the case could reach trial, Judge Wright granted President Clinton's motion for dismissal, ruling that Jones could not show that she had suffered any damages. Jones soon appealed the dismissal to the United States Court of Appeals for the Eighth Circuit.

On November 13, 1998, Clinton settled with Jones for $850,000, the entire amount of her claim, but without an apology, in exchange for her agreement to drop the appeal. Robert S. Bennett, Clinton's attorney, still maintained that Jones's claim was baseless and that Clinton only settled so he could end the lawsuit and move on with his life. In March 1999, Judge Wright ruled that Jones would get only $200,000 from the settlement and that the rest of the money would pay for her legal expenses.

Before the end of the entire litigation, her marriage broke apart. She also appeared in the news media to show the results of a makeover and of a Rhinoplasty paid for by a donor.

In April 1999, Judge Wright found Clinton in civil contempt of court for misleading testimony in the Jones case. She ordered Clinton to pay $1,202 to the court and an additional $90,000 to Jones's lawyers for expenses incurred, far less than the $496,000 that the lawyers originally requested.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Jones

this was going on while these people are working for them. of course she is a Trump supporter nowadays so feel free to pretend none of that happened in reality.

feel free to pretend none of that happened in reality

As I understand it, everything described in that Wikipedia article happened in reality. Paula Jones gave that account, she filed that suit, she got that nose job, the courts handled it as described, and the settlements were in the amounts stated. No pretending required. What's your point?

I don't think it's that hard to defend her, honestly. It was tradition, and she wasn't the governor so it wasn't her call. There.

― Frederik B, Thursday, June 8, 2017 3:46 PM (six hours ago)

she wrote about it in a gross and thoughtless way (or signed off on a book that did), which is more than enough reason to legitimately criticize her.

lol @ "she wasn't the governor so it wasn't her call" coming from the dude who once suggested that clinton's experience as first lady should count as genuine political experience comparable to serving in the senate.

Fred, Hillary isn't running for president anymore. You don't need to worry about damaging her reputation among feckless swing voters.

Also idk if you understand the close relationship between the contemporary American carceral state and slavery, especially in places like Arkansas.

It's not all hardened murderers in there. It's people involved in property or drug crimes who turned to those things -- at least in part -- in response to racial and economic marginalization.

Yes, Treeship, this is an absolutely fucked up part of American White Supremacy. That is why I think it's wrong to reduce it to 'Hillary bad'.

It's also why I would love to see the context for the excerpt, since she makes a point out of noting that they were predominantly African-American, had often been in jail since their teens, and were at times just accomplishes when someone else had shot someone. She is building to a point, but it's been cut to underline how bad Hillary is, rather than present an argument about prison labor.

The racial inequalities in the American judicial system are horribly lopsided and yeah, probably much more so in the South. There's no argument.

But for the love of God, comparing this:

http://i.imgur.com/2D4xFPl.gif

to this:

http://i.imgur.com/ksG9Uem.jpg

is patently ridiculous.

And LOL at this: if you were a prisoner who accidentally saw somebody doing some illegal shit (and working w politicans for decades you probably would) it seems like it you may make some powerful enemies.

If anything, a prisoner is going to make some powerful friends.

Convicted murderer on governor's mansion payroll

http://thegrio.com/2012/01/10/haley-barbour-pardons-4-killers-convicts-were-trustees-at-miss-governor-mansion/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Prince_(nanny)

I haven't read Clinton's book but the dispassion in the passages quoted in that Current Affairs article is monstrous. The prison labor system in this country is a crime against humanity. People should be outraged. Any politician who's aided and abetted or contributed to the growth of that system deserves whatever shit gets thrown at them.

there can be a spectrum, pplains

Morbs OTM - twisting yourself in knots to say today's systematic racism isn't as bad as your great-great-great-grandpa's systematic racism - hey look, it even ends up benefitting some of the poor fuckers trapped within it! - is really, really NAGL.

Just call it what it is: prison labor.

I know it's easier to go HILLARY LIVED ON AN ARKANSAS PLANTATION while the world burns, but you're the one not doing actual slaves - past and present - any justice.

The post upthread about "Iraqi airstrikes as distraction from Monica" Paula Jones and "maybe prisoners would be forced to keep quiet about stuff like that" etc brought things into kind of a "90s talk radio" territory.

Morbs OTM - twisting yourself in knots to say today's systematic racism isn't as bad as your great-great-great-grandpa's systematic racism - hey look, it even ends up benefitting some of the poor fuckers trapped within it! - is really, really NAGL.

― Futuristic Bow Wow (thewufs), Thursday, 8 June 2017 23:52 (yesterday) Permalink

OTFM

are we arguing that the Clintons are horrible people who should've nevertheless beat Donald Trump?

This definitely fits if the prisoners are threatened, beaten, or specifically punished for refusal to participate in the unpaid labor they are asked to perform. However, a prisoner (at least theoretically) has recourse to the court system to challenge this coercion and their lawyer could cite the State Department's definition as part of their case.

There is coercion involved. Prisoners at Angola can be punished with solitary confinement for not complying.

bernie would have freed the slaves

He had plenty of slaves - unpaid laborers assigned menial tasks like making phone calls, etc.

Bernie paid interns iirc?

those aren't slaves, they're the amanda palmer big band

re: interns, snopes is on the case

http://www.snopes.com/bernie-sanders-unpaid-interns/

domestic servitude was part of slavery too, re: those pics, pplains

It's also why I would love to see the context for the excerpt, since she makes a point out of noting that they were predominantly African-American, had often been in jail since their teens, and were at times just accomplishes when someone else had shot someone. She is building to a point, but it's been cut to underline how bad Hillary is, rather than present an argument about prison labor.

― Frederik B, Thursday, June 8, 2017 7:37 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The point she was building toward was that she couldn't understand how intelligent people had committed crimes until she read Emotional Intelligence and brain development blah blah blah

I finished Shattered. It was okay--not as good (not as trashy, if you will) as Game Change.

I should have waited, first of all--too close to the election. A lot of repetition; half of it concerns the two warring factions within her campaign, the old-guard Mandy Grunwald wing vs. the Robbie Mook analytics people. (It's a Miguel Cabrera vs. Mike Trout book.) The overriding theme is interesting, and it's presented plausibly, but it's all hindsight: that you could have seen the outcome from day one, essentially, and that the Sanders challenge (which probably takes up more space than the general) exposed every fault line on which she eventually floundered. The sad and shell-shocked Hillary of the last two or three pages is presented convincingly.

yeah I really enjoyed it, the election night chapters are really compelling. I remember hearing on election day that Hillary and Trump would be watching the results come in literally across the street from each other in Manhattan. Bill lounging on the couch, muttering "I knew it. It's Brexit" and shaking his head. It's still so mind-blowing...

preach brother michael

http://www.thedailybeast.com/the-real-hillary-clinton-conspiracy-is-what-stuck-us-with-president-donald-trump

She’s the most royally screwed-over person in the history of American politics.

oh boo fucking hoo

a self-screwer

She’s the most royally screwed-over person in the history of American politics.

oh boo fucking hoo

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Friday, July 14, 2017 8:19 AM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassinated_American_politicians

Does anyone ever use the construction 'the most _____ in the history of ______' in a way that isn't demonstrably false and doesn't make them look like a total dipshit?

Charles Bent
1847
Governor of New Mexico Territory
Taos, New Mexico (in his home)
method of assassination: arrows and scalping

damn

it's a remarkably short list when you consider how many leaders the US has murdered

i dunno, there's plenty of assassinations there. i mean having 4 presidents killed is kind of a lot, britain has only had one assassinated prime minister

Yes, but the British has never murdered any foreign leaders or foreigners in general, right?

I'll never really understand why Swedish politics are so violent, btw. But that's another thread.

the British has never murdered any foreign leaders or foreigners in general, right?

Is this serious? I would have thought that the humanitarian record of the British Empire was fairly well-documented.

fred's attempt at droll humour

all those Indians who died in the Mutiny were suicides iirc

assisted

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/whitehouse/hillary-clinton-calling-new-book-what-happened/2017/07/27/7621141a-72bb-11e7-8c17-533c52b2f014_story.html?utm_term=.23eb4f6b8264

Slight chance of selective explanation.

I don't know how trustworthy Hillary Clinton is in general, but she's the last person I'd trust to write her memoir.

Trump should write it

pic.twitter.com/GzhfB5KlXT

— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) July 27, 2017

i guess I Accept Responsibility for My Loss and Here's Who to Blame was too long a title

should just be called And Here's Why