Depression and what it's really like

dating sites aren't generally super good for self-esteem, though i did find my spouse out there (have never been into casual anything) - more a matter of luck than anything else. my intense social phobia meant that i didn't really have any other options for meeting people...

i met my wife on match fwiw, and i am a hideous mutant irl

I met my husband online - not a dating site but a message board, and I lived in New Zealand while he lived in the US, at the time.

Van Horn, can relate to your post. I've been single for the last 7 years with occasional dating and a 10 year relationship prior to all that. I feel like I've mostly acclimatized to being alone or pretending that I can do it on my own while at times doing a piss poor job taking care of myself. Which then reinforces the feeling that I cannot date until I have it more together in life, which feels like a closed loop these days. The last girl I met was in the hospital and I probably should follow up on meeting her as we discussed, but I fluctuate between ambivalence and self-loathing

I am sorry to break topic here, but I'm not doing especially well. As I said, I am on leave from work officially until today. I am supposed to meet with the HR people tomorrow. However, I have had increasing paranoia and auditory stuff and it's been really difficult for me to distinguish between the real thing and the other side. I am realistically in no condition to be attending the meeting tomorrow. I emailed and asked to postpone until next week, which was denied on the grounds that I would need a letter from my doctor extending my absence period. My psychiatrist is currently out indefinitely on sick leave. I suppose if I did attend the meeting completely sketched out and neurotic there's no way that they would clear me to return to work. Although I'm so paranoid about anything they do that I would not be surprised if they made me go back to work with the knowledge that I'm not going in clear headed so they can manipulate the situation into making me perform poorly and terminate me.

Hi Austin, is unemployment medical benefits an option?

Just some clarification, Ausin, because I mean well. It sounds like it would be good to have some extended time off from work, which I suppose you could get alternatively via a doctor's note. I believe mental health is protected under law, so employment status should remain the same. What matters is your well being

I've been single for the last 7 years with occasional dating and a 10 year relationship prior to all that. I feel like I've mostly acclimatized to being alone or pretending that I can do it on my own while at times doing a piss poor job taking care of myself. Which then reinforces the feeling that I cannot date until I have it more together in life, which feels like a closed loop these days.

wow. this is seriously my life right now

though I am taking steps to "have it more together" which right now consists of decluttering my apartment and getting rid of stuff. But sometimes I feel like this is another avoidance strategy.

By any measure it's a better avoidance strategy than, say, playing retro video games or refusing to leave the house.

well yes, I was going to say, it's more productive than getting drunk and watching prestige television

at least i only get drunk or play video games

wow. this is seriously my life right now

same

feel big resonance here. i've been single for so long i can't even tell if it's a bad or good thing. i feel lonely sometimes, but other times i feel sort of thrilled by independence. i have a chronic illness and that prob fuels solipsism even further - it is hard to sync in entirely with others, or to be depended on, or whatever. sometimes i feel lucky, other times i feel envious.

and i have many avoidance strategies, but i'm not sure that there are many other ways to live, for anyone. been meaning to check back in here of late, i've been doing counselling again. as just generally have been feeling a more latent sort of despair the last few months, for no real reason, crying for reasons unknown to me. the more counselling i do the more it's like there's some unknowable core in me.

lately, and this is a separate post or entirely different thing... but a bad thing:

i've been wanting to comment here in the context of "parental depression and what it's really like". my mother has a long-standing nerve condition that affects her feet and general mobility, which she has mostly buried emotionally for many years. she only told the rest of us about it in the last 7/8 years.

it seems to worsen her mental health and make her more angry and depressed, which means my dad (and to a lesser extent the rest of us) deal with the fallout. he's emotionally unequipped to do so, not a particularly sensitive man, but he really is doing his best and i respect his effort. he loves her and he is trying as hard as he can. he says my mother wakes up crying and stuff, or lashes out at him, or behaves hopelessly about doing things, like holidays or even tiny things like a trip out somewhere or whatever. her condition is not yet at the stage where it stops her from daily activities, she seems capable still, so it's quite hard to tell how much of what's happening is anger about the present condition and the past, and how much is fear of a worse future. she refuses to do counselling so angrily that it's prob only been suggested once or twice by me or my sister, maybe my dad. a total no-go.

the net result of all this is odd. my dad is prob more emotionally open than ever as he seeks help from all of us. perversely it means we prob all are closer to him. but the spillover is generally a real problem. at the weekend i visited and mum was highly depressed on the monday, and feeling unwell after doing physiotherapy, she sat at the table head in hands saying nothing, while my dad and i tried to help, tried and failed because there's no way in.

i flew home that day and on the way to the airport my dad said he would be out all day until late and i should phone home that night to ask how mum was, because he wouldn't be around. i didn't that night, i decided to phone the next night, i guess because i was depressed myself and i knew i had no way of actually helping or anything to say. but also because i actually like phoning home and i like speaking to my mum, and i didn't want it to become some chore instigated by my dad.

the next day my dad sent me a text saying he was very disappointed in me not phoning, that kind of thing. i was actually raging about it. i've never spoken directly to him in anger about emotional behaviour but i ended up firing a volley of texts back. i basically told him it's not as if i sit at home all day with no life or problems of my own. i told him he couldn't suddenly want open emotional conversations with his family solely for the purpose of his happiness with mum, when he never asked a thing about any of our emotional states and would change the subject if we ever brought them up, which we don't, because not talking about this stuff is family status quo.

mostly i just thought i don't want phoning my mum to be some emotional legwork, or favour. i do it often and we chat about things and have a close relationship. i really like my parents and we get along well, but the whole thing is this seeping poison. it's like the exact attitude my mum has that's hurting her and keeping her distant is the same fault my dad has and can't see in himself as he blasts me on text about how to talk to mum, having never asked or bothered to gaf about anyone else's mental state his entire life.

anyway tldr - and maybe one for the 'ageing parents' thread, but the whole thing really fucking broke my heart this week.

wow. this is seriously my life right now

same

this was my life a few years ago lol. now 12 years since i was in a relationship that lasted longer than a few months.

Always helps me to get outside

cleaning and going outside definitely help. I guess they reinforce some feeling of control, I appreciate this thread and posters therein immensely

i don't think i've ever had a conversation about emotions/feelings with either of my parents, ever. i mean, i told my mum after i was officially diagnosed with depression/anxiety but she didn't have much to say and has never initiated a conversation about it. never in a million years would i call on either of them for emotional support - the whole extended family is the same way, and i know it's the same for a lot of my new zealand friends too.

co-signing for Australia :/

<3 to my fellow antipodeans
raised with gallons of tea and very little sympathy

my dad i think had undiagnosed, untreated depression for maybe his whole adult life. there were times in the last few years where it got pretty intense, and i tried to suggest ways he could get help, but that was never going to happen. wrong generation, wrong class. i was open, eventually, about some of my own issues, but the unhelpful stuff that got said made me shut up whenever possible. it wasn't always possible - he'd still call me at least twice a week, more sometimes, wanting conversation - i think me and my brother were the only people he had serious conversations with after he retired - but his idea of a fun conversation would often be an argument about his increasingly spiteful, reactionary politics and even on a good day that wasn't an argument i enjoyed. on days when i really didn't want to be on the phone for an hour or i just felt too low to respond to his provocations he'd get pissy with me for not wanting to talk to him, made me feel like the emotional bad guy. i tried, ffs.

i reflected a lot on how much of my darkness came from him. the science says some combo of genetics and upbringing probly passed it down to me. i worry about the extent i passed it along to my kids, specifically my daughter. but me and Han can talk about this stuff, and deal with it between us. i don't blame my failings or my sadness on dad or anybody else. but Larkin had it pretty right i think, and i take responsibility now for trying not to hand that misery on any further.

and Alfred wrote a great blog piece on aloneness this week, its pleasures and trials and how it fits into your sense of identity. it feels a lot like where i am right now, often comfortable with my own company, plenty of friends to hang out with on my own terms when i want to. i still get lonely, or specifically i miss having the most intimate of relationships - thinking more of shared head space and confidences than sexual intimacy tbh. i seem to be revisiting the romantic longings i had when i was a teenager, after decades of finding those longings kind of ridiculous. if i'm alone for the rest of my life i'm coming to terms with the fact that a) i'm not "alone" and b) i had my chances and i wrecked them thru my own bad behaviour. but i'm not ready quite yet to believe i'll never be in love again, fuck it, that's the right phrase, that's what's missing. and i can go most of the day without it mattering, but the gap is grumbling away down there, and at a certain point most evenings it opens up wide and tries to swallow me.

wow, this was a lot of therapy for an early sunny morning. love all of you, hope you all find what you need in life, but if not i hope you all find the best way to settle down with what your life turns out to be.

beautiful posts NV

This thread proves we are not alone. It's tough, but keep going - even if it feels like there's no reason, I know you all have worth that can't be easily defined - don't let your battles define you, you are beautiful people above all else. Stay in the game

I try to create a list of things I have gratitude for. My nephews love me and hope I show up at their birthdays - they don't see how fucked up I am. I have good friends who love me. I might hate who I am but if we step outside of our perception of who we are - I think we're decent people and possibly too hard on ourselves. I know we're all worthy of love and respect and understanding

i told my mum after i was officially diagnosed with depression/anxiety but she didn't have much to say and has never initiated a conversation about it.

my parents are the same -- not much to say, any emotional problems/unhappiness on their part in effect do not exist because it is never spoken. They had more to say and more sympathy when I had to get a wisdom tooth removed and when I needed a root canal. I think it's mainly because they know there isn't anything they can do about it and nothing constructive to say. Like, if a problem can't be helped by either money and/or food, they are kinda at a loss and just change the subject.

Like, if a problem can't be helped by either money and/or food, they are kinda at a loss and just change the subject.

exactly the same!

Maslow huh

Wishes to everyone, guys. This is a great thread.

I have to say, I have been married 20 years and have felt the loneliest I have ever felt in the last couple. At least in the relationship sense. So it's not always the case that everyone with an apparently stable relationship enjoys security because of it.
I don't liken my everyday blues to the heavy lifting that you guys itt are facing every day though. I've huge respect to you all for turning up and especially for giving it voice.

Sometimes I wonder if my intense self-loathing, generalised misanthropy and nihilism is exacerbated by my constant and daresay permanent singlehood. It's hard not to feel lonely and jealous when, as I'm in my late twenties, it feels like everyone else I know is gradually getting into long-term relationships, getting married, even having children and I know I'm completely incapable and undeserving of anything like that. When you're determined that every single thing about yourself is repellent and idiotic, and no-one in their right mind will ever want you anyway, thinking about any of that feels indulgent and useless. Though it has been pointed out to me by a friend who's tried to get me into online dating that my shitty attitude probably makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I'm sure writing this out and publicly indulging in pathetic self-pity will only make me feel worse, but

Nah don't worry, I was basically single or in bad/harmful relationships until age 39, and I'm in a good one now but there's no guarantee that the current one will stick either. I mean not that I can talk you out of this conviction in 2 mins on the internet but just as anecdata, there's still plenty of time for you to meet a lovely, loving, stable partner and still be miserable with them.

I was able to get a note from my therapist, postponing the meeting until at least Monday. So, we'll see what happens.

In regards to relationship stuff, I don't think there's anything I want more in life, honestly, than to have a partner.

Short relationship history: high school girlfriend (broke up with me after about a year, but was essentially mutual), ten year relationship/marriage (ended in divorce, I left), five year relationship which I had basically accepted to be "the one" and with whom I had planned to live out my days with (broke up with me abruptly after a particularly intense day of psychosis-fueled stupidity).

I did recently cross paths with a person who I was very quick to notice an immediate and close connection with (which she also conceded was something she felt). It was not meant to be though, as she had already arranged to move out of state a month or so from when we started to spend time together.

I saw a meme/comic somewhere (probably on imgur, maybe here?) that said something along the lines of, "My idea of flirting is staying quiet and looking down and hoping the other person has the courage to say something." And that's basically how it goes. Especially these days, when self-doubt and that ever present guilt is just there. I have enough nerves checking out at the grocery store to potentially wear me out for the remainder of the day, so how can I possibly approach someone along the lines of, "Hello, I find you intriguing"?

After a minor stroke and some pretty tumultous family-goings on my dad fell into a pretty deep depression back when I was in my 20's, not long before I moved to the US. We found out that he was pretending to go off to work but was actually driving around town or just parked somewhere sitting in his truck. He'd write up bills for jobs he hadn't done to try to cover it, but since Mum did the accounts it all came to roost pretty quickly. He started seeming very panicked and afraid and confused, and Mum thought the stroke might have affected his brain but they diagnosed him with depression & prescribed him some Paxil. For a while at first he'd just sleep on the couch all day, which was even weirder because Dad had been fairly active beforehand. So they cut that back and eventually we sort of got a version of Dad back...it's still not the full Father Veg, but we all just sort of accepted that this was Dad now. But no-one has ever talked about it with him. Not me, not Mum, not anyone. Even when he was officially diagnosed with depression Mum had her usual non-supportive self-involved take: "what does he have to be depressed about, he's the one making MY life miserable" as though it was a pain competition and Dad had shafted her out of the trophy.

I think being in a country town, being the generation they are, it's not only 'don't talk about your feelings' for pretty much everyone, but there's so much pride and shame and secrecy about men's mental health specifically. I have always had a great relationship with Dad and we have over the years had some good deep talks about his adoption and his sad childhood, but something about Dad's depression just made me instinctively accept that this wasn't something to talk about or even acknowledge and I really, truly regret that I didn't talk to him about it at the time. And since my only conversations with him now are via Skype with Mum, it's kind of hard to find one-on-one time to do it. Maybe I will try to talk to him about it when I am home next time. Eh. Who knows.

That is so foreign and abstract to me, as my father was so clearly affected by some sort of mental issues (some people in the family think he had some sort of PTSD from being in the military, others think he was full-on manic dissociative identity disorder; depends on who you ask). He never got any sort of formal diagnosis, though, as he was very distrusting of doctors and had an ego that wouldn't allow for that sort of thing anyway.

He was a textbook example of someone who self-medicated with alcohol. He was unpredictable when he was sober, so being as he was at least buzzed most of the day, he was a total loose cannon. Actual events that transpired could set him off, or it could be something that stemmed from the paranoia within his own mindset. In any case, he would explode with rage. Just completely unreasonable, by any rationale.

My parents split before I was even a year old, so my sister and I lived with my mom and he had visitation on the weekends. All my memories are of my mother and father completely hating each other and doing nothing to hide that fact. He kidnapped my sister for a week or two once (I must have been about three or four at the time). Because there were so many conflicts between them, it was eventually ordered that there be a police escort during pick-ups and drop-offs. When we were at his place for weekends, he would mostly ignore us. He lived in this gigantic house in downtown Eugene and I have really clear memories of being dropped off Friday afternoon, him locking us in the basement, and being left there until Sunday morning, just before my mother would be by to pick us up. It was never spoken, but was explicitly understood that if we said anything, there would be big consequences. Just really damaging and unpleasant situations.

I was really afraid of him. I had seen him be physically aggressive with other people more times than I can count, and it reached that point with me a few times. Inevitably, as I got older and became more rebellious, things got to a boiling point. Eventually, after several very tense altercations, we went to family court and I had a long talk with the judge, who revoked my dad's parental rights. I was a freshman in high school, so about fourteen or fifteen.

I didn't see him for many years after that. I still stayed in touch with my grandparents (his parents), so when my grandfather died, I ran into him at the memorial service. He started in on me right away. Never changed.

After that, an even longer time passed that I didn't see him. I got word of his poor health in the fall of 2010. It was basically relayed to me that he was not going to make it home from the hospital. So, I figured I should go and try to do the right thing. I went to visit him in the VA hospital and he was in the ICU, so they did not allow me to visit for very long. Probably for the best, as he was experiencing intense dementia and did not recognize me (a very weird thing to have to introduce yourself to your own father). I was there for maybe twenty minutes and he was very out of it the entire time, talking to people that weren't there, claiming it was 1999, all kinds of stuff. He died of liver failure about a week or two later. Basically drank himself to death.

Of all the hours I've spent considering his existence, I've come to the conclusion that I probably didn't ever really know the real him. He was in such an altered state (be it chemical or just conditional) my whole life that I'm not sure if I got to see who he was. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he was a better person than I ever saw — or at least he may have been at one point.

Wow. Yeesh.

I'm really impressed by how you can appraise his actions honestly and also still think of his potential to have been better.

Well, from talking to my family about it, they all figure he was not well mentally for a very long time. Nobody can pinpoint an event or period when he began to change, but they all have pleasant memories of him being "normal" from the first third of his life. But, according to everyone, he just changed. And he just drank. And drank.

You always hear about people who are addicted to a drug and all of their friends and family say that they became a completely different person through their addiction.

I would make an educated guess that that's how it became with him. Although, how much of that was his mental illness and how much was him having slipped into that "role", I'll never know.

god Austin that sounds positively awful

Reading your posts, I feel fortunate that my father helped me a lot with depression, he also suffered from it and he really worked towards me getting better (perhaps even at the expense of himself). And reading your posts, I realize I need to tell him thank you, not that I haven't shown gratitude, I have, but I haven't expressed how I felt fortunate to have him, he didn't have this as a teenager or a young adult, because of the whole mental health stigma (that is stronger in France than in North America, even to this day).

Great thread

i saw that trending video about how to make yourself miserable, and yeah, i do most of that. or did most of that. starting the new job, i complain about not getting naps anymore but i'm so much happier, i like getting out and talking to people which is something i only really do if i _have_ to, i like having a regular sleep schedule, i like having time away from the computer where i can just read my book or stare out the train window, seriously i'm happier just staring out a train window than i am on the internet. i worry about things i need to do something about instead of worrying about things i can't do shit about. i hope i'm not fucking up the thread by talking about this stuff, but for me part of dealing with lifelong depression is acknowledging those times when i'm not miserable, that being miserable isn't as inevitable as it seems.

rushomancy otm. There are definitely good moments

i am a huge fan of a good train window stare session

Yeah I don't feel the internet is really helpful at all, which is one of the reasons I don't fuck with social media; I was on fb briefly but I felt it corroding my already fragile self-esteem/faith in humanity so I left it alone. Though this does mean I'm somewhat left out of the loop sometimes when I can muster the effort to be less reclusive. Intensive music listening away from the computer and long aimless walks tend to make me feel a little better at least for a while.

^ pretty much the same way ghali.

what counts as madness?

I need to vent here about something that's been profoundly frustrating.

I've been trying to collect unemployment benefits since May 10 and the government finally let me know I need a note from my GP saying we had discussed me changing careers as I quit my job since it was a hostile environment. My doctor did tell me to look for other jobs but I don't have this in writing and I cannot get an appointment with him until June 22 - I asked him to fax the note to the government but he refused to do so. I need this money to live and luckily I have a job interview that sounds promising coming up, but I'm so disappointed with our medical system sometimes. When I initially told my doc I needed to go on leave prior to quitting my job for medical reasons, he put me on anti depressants. he's a clueless fuck

So the only alternative was claiming my work place was a hostile environment, which means I would have to get my boss to confirm it's negative. He's too worried about lawyers and won't do it, but he's quitting himself. It would only take on look at employment websites to see that my former company has terrible reviews....I feel pretty stuck, and hopefully this job works out

Man this is hard today. I have friends who really love me but I hate myself often. I watch stand up comedy to avert sadness and have a drinking problem. I wish it would get easier

I'm so ready to do myself in. I don't feel that bad about it.

Jed, don't man!!

please don't, please