UK terror threat level raised to 'critical'. Troops could be deployed. More or less a state of emergency, in other words.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 20:55 (six years ago) link
xp Could you c+p that, it's paywalled?
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 20:56 (six years ago) link
(xp) Yet we're still supposed to have a General Election on June 8.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 20:57 (six years ago) link
It's all so senseless. The terrorists who do this sort of thing don't even have a clearly stated achievable goal, just death and destruction.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:00 (six years ago) link
They have goals. Goal #1 is heighten the antagonism between the Islamic world and the West. The ultimate goal is for their version of Islam to squeeze out all others. They want to build societies based on a literalist reading of sharia law.
― Treeship, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:07 (six years ago) link
ISIS is an organization of dumbass psychopaths but they nevertheless have an ideology and an agenda.
― Treeship, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:12 (six years ago) link
I have an idea the ultimate goal of ISIS might be more banal, beneath the stated aim of a global caliphate - more like claiming a chunk of territory from syria, turkey and iraq and holding it for themselves.
But yes, antagonism between a 'west' and an 'islam' (and also building them two concepts and trying to make them concrete) is a big part of it.
But then I think Josh also has a point about the weakness in terms of definable concrete objectives in these attacks.
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:17 (six years ago) link
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Tuesday, May 23, 2017 1:56 PM (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HFGnAUgCJvEJ:https://www.ft.com/content/93d616a6-3f97-11e7-9d56-25f963e998b2+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
or
https://pastebin.com/tDTBaXJJ
― i n f i n i t y (∞), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:17 (six years ago) link
Great stuff, thanks again
why i support an anti-war agenda. Western foreign policy for the last 10+ years has only fed into this. we need to stop bombing. we need to stop droning. we need to stop arming. violence begets violence. we always find a convenient scapegoat, someone else to blame and say is worse, never taking time to seriously consider the consequences for those not so geographically privileged (Atlantic and Pacific ocean we love you). the Iraq War and War on Terror are things that happened, are still happening, and have consequences down the line, and will for decades. the US left needs to step up in regards to the anti-war effort. we need to course correct and then some.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:21 (six years ago) link
so true adam
― spud called maris (darraghmac), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:27 (six years ago) link
adam otm, which is also why seeing this current administration is so disheartening, it is almost guaranteed the situation will only get worst down the next 20 years.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:52 (six years ago) link
At a slightly faster rate than it would have under Clinton, tbf.
― nickn, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:54 (six years ago) link
This is probably not the best place to discuss it, but it seems ISIS goal is ... isolationist? They want their own country/land/laws, and no outside intrusion. But is that really achievable in today's world? Would anyone be cool with a draconian authoritarian region? A bunch of North Koreas? And would ISIS even be satisfied achieving its amorphous goals and stopping there? It doesn't seem feasible, or morally tenable. It's a total conundrum, really. The west is to blame for plenty of the mess, but there is every indication it would be a mess without our meddling.
That said, given population, poverty, countless years of malicious or misbegotten policy etc., any course correction would take decades. Which might not be a realistic goal, either. Is there any indication that a religious cult bent on mass destruction and/or world domination can change direction? It took centuries for the Christians and Muslims to chill out the first time around.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 21:59 (six years ago) link
I don't gather that ISIS is isolationist - my understanding is that they want a clash of civilizations as much as Steve Bannon (and that's a major part of the problem - 'leaving well enough alone' isn't an option any more)
― El Tuomasbot (milo z), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 22:13 (six years ago) link
oh good Morrissey's shown up.
― piscesx, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 22:16 (six years ago) link
was actually waiting for that
― i n f i n i t y (∞), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 22:21 (six years ago) link
cheers and big love btw to those who said supportive things on this thread last night.
a sombre night in the centre of town by all accounts; but thousands out and about; busier even than normal for a warm sunny evening. Simple Minds did a big 'thing' at their gig tonight; Jim Kerr said some nice things etc. i wasn't there but the footage is on Twitter. i've never been their biggest fan but i bet it was a good gig to be at considering.
― piscesx, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 22:37 (six years ago) link
a sombre night *tonight* i should say.
― piscesx, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 22:39 (six years ago) link
I'm pretty sure ISIS strategy is to make me hate everyone and their dumb opinion in my local pub then fuck yeah you win, can we stop now.
― PressAnarchyToContinue (Ste), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 22:59 (six years ago) link
(and that's a major part of the problem - 'leaving well enough alone' isn't an option any more)
should say it's not an easy option anymore - even if we stop bombing and interfering and propping up the Saudis and other regional autocrats, ISIS/etc. are still going to be trying to attack Europeans and Americans, which makes it harder to sell non-intervention
― El Tuomasbot (milo z), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:07 (six years ago) link
as long as Iran, Saudis and EUA do not to step up and use their petrodollars to finance peace in one way or another, ISIS and something similar will happen.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:10 (six years ago) link
never taking time to seriously consider the consequences for those not so geographically privileged
Seriously wtf does "geographically privileged" mean? Major lols
― van smack, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:12 (six years ago) link
some territories are better than others. pretty much the only way to explain history most influential movements without being racist, afaic.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:21 (six years ago) link
So, to say Afghanistan is a 'shithole', that makes one a racist?
― van smack, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:34 (six years ago) link
Nah I think that's totally fine
― Blandford Forum, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:37 (six years ago) link
ISIS/etc. are still going to be trying to attack Europeans and Americans, which makes it harder to sell non-intervention
The guy who carried this out is from Manchester. That's in Europe.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:38 (six years ago) link
He didn't seem to like it that much though.
― Treeship, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:42 (six years ago) link
van smack your mouth is a shithole
― the late great, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:45 (six years ago) link
He means US is privileged by having ocean between it and the rest of the world? So can intervene but locals in the area will suffer more from reprisals than US will
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:46 (six years ago) link
No doubt, but this idea that there's thing out there, that we must destroy, separate from us, somewhere over there in the Middle East, and it's called da-da-da-da-da-da-DAHHHH ISIS is simple-minded.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:47 (six years ago) link
Go over to Syria, get rid of these ISIS dudes, job done.
― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:48 (six years ago) link
There isn't a simple solution to this.
I think most recent american interventions, especially with drones but also with aiding saudi arabia's proxy wars and things like that, are immoral on its own terms but i don't think stopping that stuff would make isis and al qaeda disappear.
― Treeship, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:53 (six years ago) link
And like, there are people fighting these groups -- fighting for a decent society. What is our responsibility to them? To the Iraqi army retaking Mosul, to the Kurds? Especially now that American actions created the vaccuums that allowed Isis and others to thrive, can we just cut our losses now, at this point?
― Treeship, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:56 (six years ago) link
i believe extreme poverty and massive inequality in the middle east is the root cause. not unlike how the great depression was one of the major factors in developing fascism in europe.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 23 May 2017 23:58 (six years ago) link
― the late great,
Personal attack, congrats.
― van smack, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 00:10 (six years ago) link
― El Tuomasbot (milo z), Wednesday, 24 May 2017 00:44 (six years ago) link
Oh geez.. It's that time again, between 24 tot 48 hours after an attack, when everyone's an expert. Didn't think it'd become this basic and lame on ilx, but here we are. The trrrists won.
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 00:49 (six years ago) link
Come on guys
― Charles "Butt" Stanton (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 24 May 2017 00:50 (six years ago) link
Some people cope with trying to find solutions, it is very irrational and not to be taken seriously.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 00:55 (six years ago) link
van snack i personally attack your mom on the nightly
― the late great, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 01:34 (six years ago) link
also go fuck yourself
― the late great, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 01:36 (six years ago) link
racist classist piece of garbage
I'm so sick of this shit. I've been here for 16 years and watch this place gradually turn more more into a haven for assholes. Why do I have to come on this board after a long day at work and listen to people insult my career or insult the part of the world I'm from. And then you get all self-righteous and huffy and act like I'm the asshole for getting offended.
― the late great, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 01:44 (six years ago) link
Seriously the worst fucking people have come to dominate this board.
― the late great, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 01:46 (six years ago) link
lol keep crying late great
― van smack, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 02:10 (six years ago) link
mah feels
― van smack, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 02:11 (six years ago) link
Shut up van smack
― Treeship, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 02:16 (six years ago) link
lol who are you? fuck outta here.
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 02:17 (six years ago) link
saying "mah feels" on ilx, my god get back to the rest of the internet where you belong you basic pos
― call all destroyer, Wednesday, 24 May 2017 02:21 (six years ago) link
Reports of fatalities after a man knocked over many pedestrians near Finsbury Park mosque pic.twitter.com/V6JVNbBR4y— Shulem Stern (@ShulemStern) June 19, 2017
― stet, Monday, 19 June 2017 00:04 (six years ago) link
Feels like it's time for a rolling thread tbh London Rolling
― stet, Monday, 19 June 2017 00:18 (six years ago) link
god fucking dammit
― El Tomboto, Monday, 19 June 2017 00:18 (six years ago) link