when did Sonic Youth peak

they obviously peaked with 'the diamond sea', anyone who says otherwise is lying to themselves and to ilx

Music obviously peaked with "The Diamond Sea".

- me at 16

I only like Daydream Nation. Dirty was meh. Didn't like Confusion is Sex or Evol or Bad Moon Rising. Haven't heard anything else. Maybe I should.

Completely great quote. I hate Rubber Soul and Revolver and Sgt. Pepper. Liked Abbey Road (for the most part, that Octopus Garden song is something else). Haven't heard anything else. Maybe I should.

clue's in the name xp

Diamond Sea is a million minutes of Thurston planning to cheat on his wife.

Ultimately, I think I'll go with Dirty Boots as the center of their cultural and musical impact, even though I like lots of other things much more, and have voted 80s.

They obviously peaked in whichever decade the respondent was 16 in.

What about those of us who were 16 before they existed?

i liked the 90s stuff in high school. my band covered 100%, i thought mote was a really cool track, and i listened to a cassette of experimental jet set in my car a bunch. because i wasn't really around/aware it was hard for me to understand the reverence for their older material at that time.
now i would say the best album would be a combination of evol and sister. never got into daydream nation beyond teenage riot and eric's trip.

C&P (insane) discussion from other thread:

sonic youth peaked in the 80s and basically sucked after that

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 11:16 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

nah nm i don't actually feel that way

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 11:16 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

slow but distinct decline with interesting interludes

― The Remoans of the May (Noodle Vague), Friday, 12 May 2017 11:21 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's better

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 11:22 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

They got good when they discovered phaser and chorus pedals on Washing Machine.

the 80s records all sound like SHIT, horrible thin & flat production, almost as bad as Spot's work with Hüsker Dü. Daydream Nation has riffs but it sounds horrible. Goo onwards they had good production but ehh

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:26 (twenty-seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

music talk should really be quarantined to ILM, for the sake of all the innocents

dmac is exempt from this, obv

― brimstead, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:28 (twenty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

80s SY is straight noise rock lol who cares about production

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:30 (twenty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

the SY records that were "produced well" are boring as shit

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:31 (twenty-two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Teenage Riot is one of the best riffs of all time, but that shit sounds weak on record. It's quiet & flat.

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:33 (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i'll start a new thread in ILM

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:33 (twenty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think if there's one person on this board whose views on music I can reliably disgree with it's flappy bird.

― Punnet of the Grapes (Tom D.), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:34 (nineteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

idk those 80s records sound fine to me. sister especially

― marcos, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:36 (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ye mad puffin i think is referring to their live shows

sy the little princesses that they are have said they sometimes didnt feel like playing songs so played huge walls of sound and feedback sometimes, mostly in the 90s im gonna say

― i n f i n i t y (∞), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:37 (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Sister and EVOL definitely sound better than Daydream Nation, and yeah I like all these records, but they could be so much better. I hate when shit production stifles great songs, most egregious example is Teenage Riot.

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:38 (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

anyway i started a different thread, moving on w/ nonmusical controversial opinions um..... Eyes Wide Shut is the best Kubrick movie

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:39 (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

on White Light White Heat you can barely make out the drums what is up with that shitty production? for christ's sake learn how to mix properly

― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:39 (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

apples n oranges my dude. Teenage Riot is an anthem and the production doesn't serve it well. and fwiw i love the production on every VU record. i'm not saying everything needs to have big booming production, just that these particular records would've been served well by it.

― flappy bird, Friday, 12 May 2017 12:41 (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

xp

bullshit punk rock diy ethos

― i n f i n i t y (∞), Friday, 12 May 2017 12:43 (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7TuWdHNsYY

this is their peak

Possibly true. I'd like to see which of their videos had the most play on MTV.

Music obviously peaked with "The Diamond Sea".

- me at 16

same

They obviously peaked in whichever decade the respondent was 16 in.

― emil.y, Friday, May 12, 2017 1:56 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. I was 13 when Rather Ripped came out, it was the first new SY record that came out after I had become a fan. I got Murray Street that summer and it's been my favorite ever since. Glad I got to see them in 2009.

What about those of us who were 16 before they existed?

― dlp9001, Friday, May 12, 2017 1:57 PM (fifty-five seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

y'all can attest to the mystery and cultural impact they had at first!

also in the 90s, they had a larger presence as arbiters of cool than a band, ime.

Honestly, they seem completely irrelevant now, and we should really be talking about some band that the Spotify algorithm likes. Consigned to the dustbin of history.

Like, isn't there some North Korean band that glenn likes that should be taking their place in this discussion?

Evol-Sister was the peak and both sound fat as fuck imo

man I'm listening to A Thousand Leaves right now, it's so good, they really fell in love with phaser pedals

xp yeah EVOL and Sister have p good production, but imo the songs on Daydream Nation are better

They peaked with Daydream Nation, you can't surpass Teenage Riot.

they actually did, it's called "Rain on Tin"

i guess as they got songier i loved them less but Sister at least has a bunch of great songs even if i don't love "Schizophrenia"

and i've got no problem with anthemic but it's not a thing i associate with or want from SY

DN might be their best album and imo Trilogy is the best thing on it

They never really mastered songwriting, and hence music was forced to rely on the likes of Steve Kipner and other professionals. Thank god songwriting was recovered from the ignorant masses. It's the only reason we still have music as we know it today...

Sonic Nurse and Rather Ripped are two of their best albums. So many good tunes.

'88-94

Evol-Sister was the peak and both sound fat as fuck imo

― The Remoans of the May (Noodle Vague), Friday, May 12, 2017 2:05 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm. i'd add bad moon rising too

Good questions to ask: why were they important (or were they). Which albums were important in terms of musical history.

I'm sure that Sonic Nurse and Rather Ripped are the correct answers. Thanks, fuckwad, or whatever your name is. Amazing tunes, whooo!

alfred otm, NYC G&F thru Rather Ripped is easily their best run.

EVOL/Sister for me too. I was 16 in 1992 though *blows minds*

tbh I at least like most of their stuff from all decades

NYC G&F is an outlier, thanks to stolen equipment and a credulous bass player....

listening to NYC G&F for the first time in a while, never noticed the O'Rourkian glitch-fest at the end of the first track.

Their mid-80s run (Bad Moon Rising/Evol/Sister/Daydream Nation) is great, Goo is a misstep, Dirty is crap, Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star is almost good, and everything afterward is completely irrelevant.

A cord and a pedal and a life that'll do for now

tbh I at least like most of their stuff from all decades

― Colonel Poo, Friday, 12 May 2017 13:14 (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is true for me too but I guess I would place the peak in the 80s, since those five main studio albums still seem another-level to me. First, I was a little intrigued by flappy bird's comments on production, considering how someone born in 1993 might have no reference point for a time when it was a lot more difficult and expensive to get recording fidelity. But then he went and liked the production on Evol and Sister so that's probably not what's going on.

I hate most of that Ciccone Youth thing, though.

I do rate Murray Street about as high as the 80s albums, though!

i've never liked the production on daydream nation: everything seems masked, sister has a much richer sound

For me the turning point was seeing them supported by Pavement in 92. Pavement just felt so inspired in comparison - I didn't feel the need to see SY again. Hence my vote for 80s.

90s sonic youth is so bad

Their mid-80s run (Bad Moon Rising/Evol/Sister/Daydream Nation) is great, Goo is a misstep, Dirty is crap, Experimental Jet Set, Trash and No Star is almost good, and everything afterward is completely irrelevant.

― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Friday, May 12, 2017 2:22 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

also otm

Hah hah, not touching this thread. Range of opinions on SY evidenced over and over again to be too varied. Last stretch of comments all as correct or wrong as any other. Good luck.

i've never liked the production on daydream nation: everything seems masked, sister has a much richer sound

― mark s, Friday, May 12, 2017 2:29 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah this is otm, Sister sounds much more saturated.

Never really got why so many people think Dirty is crap tbh

They became interesting with 100% and should have called it quits after Creme Brulee.

We've got a sound! = EVOL, Sister, DY
We've got a modern rock/MTV audience! = Goo, Dirty, EJTS
Let's jam! = WM, ATY, NYCG&F
We've learned to combine these things! = MS, SN, RR

I like to love every one of these albums except WM and the one released in 2009.

murray st and sonic nurse are my favs so i guess 00s

Murray Street was the biggest disappointment for me because they brought in the two saxophonists from Borbetomagus on one song, and then just had them bleat softly in the background for like a minute.

much too long, yes

But they did make an artistic statement with guitars. I don't see what the pretence was.

Also, guys, that's someone's private remaster of Sister on Youtube; not like it's an official release or anything. At least they're doing something more interesting than that deluxe remaster of DN.

I love "The Burning Spear" so much but it's just undisciplined Liquid Liquid. I said SYR is trash but SYR 4 is kind of a weird exception, I resented it when it came out because it seemed like some push toward "legitimizing their pop music in the eyes of [whom?] by staking a claim within the avant-garde musical community" which is disappointing in six different ways at once, but in retrospect I'm totally into both the spirit of its curation and the quality of its execution

it seemed like some push toward "legitimizing their pop music in the eyes of [whom?] by staking a claim within the avant-garde musical community"

I never felt like this was the intention fwiw.

Not that I'd know but it's just not how I ever saw it. Band members had been doing avant and improv side projects fairly consistently for a while by that point and had played with Branca around when they started releasing anything as a band. And "whom" seems like a key question there: I never imagined that the band was really that desperate to impress the very small niche of people who know who Christian Wolff and James Tenney are.

I don't feel like it was the intention either! But I did at the time.

I will try to describe it. I was told by friends that Sonic Youth had issued some statement to people calling them sell-outs for playing Lollapalooza, saying they'd take the money, build their own studio, and start their SYR series. The false equivalency of "difficult music" with "antiestablishment" has no truck with me as I don't think sonic dissonance and politics are related. The idea that a rock band would play improvised new music, or, in the case of SYR 4, perform compositions by avant-garde composers, as an effort to gain back the perceived loss of credibility from "going mainstream" just makes me feel insane about a long list of bullet-points, i.e. the ridiculousness of fan ownership, the ridiculousness of making "difficult music records" to appease that ownership, that aforementioned false equivalency, etc. etc.

In short, I perceived that the SYR series and 4 in particular was a stupid exercise at appeasing stupid fans and their stupid perceptions of what a band was supposed to do. At the time I felt this. But now I don't care. It's a good recording of some good compositions, good work team!

I mean I used to feel weird about Ciccone Youth and SY's cover of Superstar or whatever because I thought they were piss-takes. I used to think Thurston was fucking annoying for wearing his list of influences on his sleeve in interviews like he felt he needed a pedigree. I remember in the 90s the scourge of authenticity and the smug superiority. I don't care any more. Ciccone Youth rocks and I love the cover of "Superstar". Idk sorry for the long types. I don't know how to feel about this band lol

Did anyone watch that beck/thurston 120 minutes interview I posted above. Not sure if they're both assholes, only one of them (and which one), or if it's just me who is the asshole.

Like c'mon Sund4r I know they live and work in NYC and they're as avant-garde as anybody but you don't think there's something kind of suspect and smug about a second-billing festival band issuing a survey recording of avant-garde compositions? I guess it's the survey-esque nature of the thing that frustrated me xp

Also lol at that interview. "Maybe a Heino record.. or Xanadu..." "Well, I'm sure all these viewers can really relate to you on that!" idk! it was the 90s! everybody was like that, no? Beck is just not selling it particularly well

(I'm a fan of that interview!)

Supporting/encouraging Beck was the biggest aesthetic crime anyone in Sonic Youth was ever involved in.

in retrospect, this is v v true

I always felt that SY4 was more of an attempt to impress O'Rourke, or - we've now got this guy who knows a lot about avant-garde music and has improvised a lot, how do make USE of that?

And weren't they just saying, the more 'popular' things we like to do fund the less 'popular' things we like to do?

Considering the 90s were a time where Beck was into drone guitar and Olivia since before he could speak and he was so slack that his real name was the sound of a sneaker hitting the wall I think that playing into the dissonance = credibility = cool equation was probably a part of it, even if the story of them starting SYR to allay "sell-out" accusations was spurious

that Beck interview is fucking classic. SYR4 is great.. i was a super-stupid fan of sonic youth in 1999, and it fell right in line with my own trajectory outwards, discovering the larger world of music, fucking around with sounds and recording regularly. side A (of 4) sounded fully unhinged, with Kim G's vague, hushed vocals woven into the loose fabric - it was mysterious and difficult to understand. it introduced me to Christian Marclay, who made satisfying percussive sounds w/turntable, records etc. on "Burdocks" (a highlight) and throughout the four sides (the longer Cage pieces esp.) "Six for New Time" is another highlight, maybe the closest thing resembling a song (Slint-like?) on the album, and it introduced me to Pauline Oliveros. loved the variety of percussion and electronic sounds, the general sparseness of it, with meaty textures and odd juxtapositions.. but the ideas it presented were sometimes more appealing than the actual material/results. i'm glad to have been naive or ignorant of any supposed political or aesthetic intent for the album at the time, though i really dug the layout (font, graphics etc.) of the SYR series.

Considering the 90s were a time where Beck was into drone guitar and Olivia since before he could speak and he was so slack that his real name was the sound of a sneaker hitting the wall I think that playing into the dissonance = credibility = cool equation was probably a part of it, even if the story of them starting SYR to allay "sell-out" accusations was spurious

― fgti, Friday, June 9, 2017 8:13 PM (twelve minutes ago)

this post is poetry

True story (and PUA tip): I shared that interview with my current partner of 3.5 years when we were first courting.

SYR4 is great.. i was a super-stupid fan of sonic youth in 1999, and it fell right in line with my own trajectory outwards, discovering the larger world of music, fucking around with sounds and recording regularly.

This was very similar to my experience. By '99, I'd just started getting seriously into experimental composers. From my weirdly self-absorbed pov, it just seemed like a logical direction for them to go at the time, with the alternative moment in popular culture having more or less passed, esp after they had already put out a 20-minute song that was mostly a noise jam on a Geffen record.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

154 votes! nice. kinda surprised that 00s placed last

The results are too close

Lmao

this fuckin guy http://pitchfork.com/tv/22-over-under/1987-thurston-moore-rates-harry-styles-vaping-and-90s-nostalgia/

154 votes

wtf

xp i love that when they get to "90s nostalgia" thurston sounds like he's midway through a stereotypical old person speech "which was the style at the time..."

also damn i know i've thought this and probably posted this before but are those caricatures they do for the over/under's intentionally really bad and unflattering?

The "1987" in that url was really fucking with my head.

vaping blows

otm

"Sugar is just wicked at my age."

hey that too (i'm the same age as him); weight gain is a bitch for old dudes, even stringbeans like thurston

TeenAge wiot

hello twenty, fifteen!

sister-sister-sister

radical adults lick godhead style

boys go to jupiter get more stupider
girls go to mars become rockstars

one two one two one two titty

don't forget to close the door

Terror Twilight’s second attempt at actualization began at Sonic Youth’s Lower East Side studio/practice space Echo Canyon, rented out to the band at friends’ rates. The manageable budget was the main attraction but within a couple days it became apparent that the studio’s sundry idiosyncrasies were a bridge too far for Godrich. Acceptable headphone mixes were nearly impossible to achieve and the faders were upside down.

they peaked a lot when the faders were upside down, probably