she*
(i mean, with good reason obv)
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:31 (seven years ago) link
i would would rather she be president
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:32 (seven years ago) link
i would would rather a tree stump be president
(ie a prez w/ Hil's charisma and better mic skills)
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
by "certain people" do you mean "minorities who have supported her for years" or "women who have supported her for years" or "LGBT people who have supported her for years"
I don't know a single person who criticized Clinton back in the day who wholeheartedly embraced her in this race. I know several who felt she was the only sane option but they weren't happy about voting for her; most of them had never voted for a Democrat in their lives. The people I know who vociferously supported her were the people who voted for her over Obama in the 2008 primary and were sad she wasn't running in 2004, and these people cross all of the demographics I mentioned.
Basically, it's inconceivable to a subset of the American left/Democratic party that some people may have never hated Hillary Clinton, and these people like to express their incredulous disbelief over and over, louder and louder, just to make sure you don't make the mistake of thinking they might not hate Hillary Clinton.
― Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
idk, i haven't really witnessed any of this favorable revisionism wrt Hillary. at best she's been pitied but mostly I just see people dunking on her everywhere.
― evol j, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
which is why the propaganda machinery during election season at least made sense even if it was annoying, but at this point it's over, she lost, we can just admit she sucks now
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:34 (seven years ago) link
by "we" you mean "ILX," not "the other people who are not white or men who voted for her."
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:36 (seven years ago) link
She ran a fine campaign against an unconventional candidate against; she would've beaten any other candidate.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:37 (seven years ago) link
cross out "against"
man, your floor for "a fine campaign" surprises me.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:46 (seven years ago) link
isn't there a baseball game on or something
― increasingly bonkers (rushomancy), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:47 (seven years ago) link
Way better than Dukakis, Mondale, and Kerry? Wayyyyy better than Gkre?
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:47 (seven years ago) link
a fine campaign would have had a message beyond "that guy is ka-raaayzee" imo
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:49 (seven years ago) link
But she didn't visit Michigan, which as we all know was the only swing-state she lost.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:50 (seven years ago) link
ok I guess "america is already great" was the other, even worse part of the messaging xp
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:50 (seven years ago) link
also "I have experience, Kissinger is my friend and Nancy Reagan was an AIDS activist"
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:51 (seven years ago) link
she definitely ran a campaign that would have worked against a conventional candidate. can't fault her for not adjusting, i guess
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:52 (seven years ago) link
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, May 2, 2017 1:49 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
listen i looooooove to relitigate the fucking election but this received-wisdom-among-hardcore-leftists reductive ass view of her campaign is fucking stupid
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:57 (seven years ago) link
what was her vision for the country beyond "third term of obama" brad
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:59 (seven years ago) link
Just curious: Why isn't 'third term of obama' good enough?
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:01 (seven years ago) link
i feel like people voted for obama
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:01 (seven years ago) link
as their wages continued to stagnate
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:02 (seven years ago) link
they voted for HIM, yes.
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:02 (seven years ago) link
"third term of incremental gains for some while a widening chunk of the country burns" takes a way more skilled pol to sell imo
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:03 (seven years ago) link
She would've won against a more conventional candidate.
She would've won if Comey hadn't made his late October announcement, of which there's plenty of data showing.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:04 (seven years ago) link
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, May 2, 2017 4:59 PM
is your name Mark Halperin?
no, thank god
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:05 (seven years ago) link
"third term of Obama" is not the same message as "that guy is ka-raaayzee"
She is a policy wonk; her entire platform was built upon the idea that people should bring her problems and she would sit down with her team, study precedents and statutes, and forge a consensus-friendly answer that would benefit as many people as it could to the best of its ability. It's not a sexy platform or one that easily breaks down into soundbites but it is pretty much exactly how you need to run a government serving a plethora of needs and competing interests, not all of which are easily dismissed as cranks and unimportant.
Also, how much of that widening burning chunk of the country is due to states voting in obstructionist Republicans who do not have any ideas to bring to the table beyond trickle-down economics and "everything Democrats propose is evil and wrong because they allowed a black man to run for President"?
― Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:06 (seven years ago) link
People who are Democrats will vote for the Democrat against this generation of nu-Reagan nihilists -- and a female Democrat. That was reason enough. It's not that hard. I'm quite sorry you can dismiss women and the blacks suspicious of Sanders so easily (and I was a fervent Sanders supporter in the primaries); they would be most likely to be hurt by a Trump administration and Congress working in sync.
But, sure, yea, fine, she shouldn't have spent so much time turning him into Darth Vader -- in part because he was.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:08 (seven years ago) link
has anyone else read Shattered yet?
― flappy bird, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:08 (seven years ago) link
fwiw unlike uhh a lot of people apparently I'm not necessarily convinced Bernie would have won
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:09 (seven years ago) link
Why should we? It looks like we're writing our own versions.
xpost
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:10 (seven years ago) link
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 20:52 (twelve minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
one of the main things to fault her campaign on, really.
― virginity simple (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:11 (seven years ago) link
DJP otm
After the last few months, a third term for Obama sounds enticing. Or, for that matter, a third term for Bill. Or first term for Dukakis, Gore, Kerry, or Hillary. Maybe none of those is what we would design from scratch, but any of them would represent an improvement over Yamilton.
But sure, yeah, let's rev up the neg-on-Hillz machine anew.
― okey-dokey, gnocchi (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:12 (seven years ago) link
just out of curiosity, what was McCain's vision beyond "third term of GWB"?
(not being sarcastic here, I really don't remember)
― frogbs, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:13 (seven years ago) link
In the last three months she ran against a candidate she portrayed as an incoherent racist and a buffoon who represented a threat to the world.
Guess she was wrong.
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:15 (seven years ago) link
i don't know if bernie would have won either. probably had similar chances, maybe less, who knows
the suspicion regarding bernie was afaict due to the fact that he was viewed as a carpetbagger -- which isn't even wrong, it was his first time running for national office so obv he didn't campaign much in the south unlike some people who spent the last 20 years running for president with longstanding ties to the community. i understood the reason for their relative popularity with the dem base and didn't really begrudge them for preferring hillary. but i don't feel as though i am obligated to agree with their choice
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:16 (seven years ago) link
sarcasm deems
when Obama first got elected he was saying he would have voted against Iraq. in his book, it was all over his website. it was a big reason he was so popular.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:18 (seven years ago) link
thks, i figured it was a strange one but americans are bad at humour so yknow
― virginity simple (darraghmac), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:19 (seven years ago) link
brad I fully understand that all this relitigation is tiresome as fuck, I do hope (and I think most of us can agree on this?) that if anything good comes of this mess it's that there's a broader field of candidates next time around and someone who isn't Sanders is around to eg fight for single payer, higher minimum wage, and maybe, just maybe, not being a gigantic hawk (Sanders also sucked on that)
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:25 (seven years ago) link
people should bring her problems and she would sit down with her team, study precedents and statutes, and forge a consensus-friendly
so, "all the best people"
what happened to 'campaigning in poetry'?
i just flipped today seeing a clip of her on CNN going "Comey, Assange etc". Disappear.
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:27 (seven years ago) link
Comey and Assange should both def be disappeared
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:29 (seven years ago) link
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, May 2, 2017 2:25 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i also hope for this
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:33 (seven years ago) link
How exactly do you run against a candidate like Trump? Outside of visiting the Midwest, what should she have done differently? The campaign was so strange. Every single thing Trump said or did was national news, while Hillary's dense policy speeches got no coverage whatsoever. Trump could say something stupid like "Obama and Hillary founded ISIS!" and talking heads would debate whether or not that was true for an entire day. Trump could get positive coverage by not tripping over his dick for 24 hours, whereas nearly every single story about Hillary was negative. Trump's supporters didn't care that he was unqualified or a bigot - in fact, they loved him for it. What do you do?
― frogbs, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:34 (seven years ago) link
move left to inspire some of the 45% that doesn't vote imo
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:35 (seven years ago) link
to summarize somebody's tweet i posted a few months ago, "We're going to give you a job and let you see the doctor."
― Supercreditor (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:37 (seven years ago) link
Xpost a lot of the infighting can be attributed back to the spareness of that primary field. Other serious candidates, (especially pushing more progressive challenges) vying for it would have diluted the false dynamic, excessive villainizing that took hold.
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:38 (seven years ago) link
yeah I'm clearly no Hillary fan but the DNC are many orders dumber
― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:40 (seven years ago) link
If the Clintons were as nefarious and connected to shady dealings as people want to think they are, they would have had Trump killed.
Clinton DID move left and was roundly criticized by people on the left for it.
Clinton's biggest weakness as a candidate is that it did not actually matter what she said or did; a significant percentage of the voters who would agree with a large amount of the things her platform represented were going to reject her out of hand or look for reasons not to support her because she is Hillary Clinton (as evidenced by this thread).
― Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 21:41 (seven years ago) link