seems like one of those guys who is prone to coasting, underachieving
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 02:56 (seven years ago) link
People overreact to playoff blowouts
― Matt Armstrong, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 03:06 (seven years ago) link
CAD, that i will defend him on. he's become a pretty good defender, this game excluded.
― nice cage (m bison), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 03:11 (seven years ago) link
prone to coasting, underachieving
yeah. motivation is important to lma's performance, and it's not always easy for him to find some.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 03:20 (seven years ago) link
Just hope the SA media drag him over the coals. He responds well to hurt feelings and resentment.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 03:21 (seven years ago) link
matt otm
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 03:22 (seven years ago) link
i don't think anyone thinks this game is indicative of the rest of the series but it is not what you want if you're the spurs
― call all destroyer, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 03:28 (seven years ago) link
losing home court is never a great idea in the playoffs.
― a little too mature to be cute (Aimless), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 03:30 (seven years ago) link
Not trying to be sports radio hot take about it but genuinely still waiting for a signature cp3 playoff performance
― gis for westbrook shark jump (agent hibachi), Monday, May 1, 2017 9:38 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago)
are you trying to make me mad
― k3vin k., Monday, May 1, 2017 10:20 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Ha I knew I was kicking your beehive but I honestly was trying to think of any. He's been great sometimes but I can't offhand recall a serious playoff asskicking along the lines of lebron dropping 24 straight on Detroit or going full terminator on the Celtics in 2011- maybe I'm just forgetting. But I think it's partly bc he has to play to his max all the time there's just not much more he can do especially when defenses have 5 to 7 straight games to focus on solving his tricks
― gis for westbrook shark jump (agent hibachi), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 10:47 (seven years ago) link
I know I'm forgetting how good he was back in New Orleans, those teams were way undermanned basically just him and David west
Btw raptors endless futility in game 1s is one of my favorite playoff running jokes
― gis for westbrook shark jump (agent hibachi), Tuesday, 2 May 2017 10:50 (seven years ago) link
i hope the raps are stuck forever on the cusp of being actually good
― micah, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 13:18 (seven years ago) link
i dont expect them to win but it would be nice if they made the cavs at least sweat a little
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 16:36 (seven years ago) link
lost a little respect for simmons when i saw he put nash and curry ahead of paul― k3vin k., Friday, April 28, 2017 10:05 PM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkyou rank cp ahead of curry?― Spottie, Monday, May 1, 2017 5:42 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkall time? yeah. give curry another 3 years and it'll be a conversation― k3vin k., Monday, May 1, 2017 4:40 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalinkcp3 will be 32 later this week and had a season roughly as valuable as curry, the 2-time defending MVP. that's how good he is.― k3vin k., Monday, May 1, 2017 4:42 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― k3vin k., Friday, April 28, 2017 10:05 PM (three days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
you rank cp ahead of curry?
― Spottie, Monday, May 1, 2017 5:42 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
all time? yeah. give curry another 3 years and it'll be a conversation
― k3vin k., Monday, May 1, 2017 4:40 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
cp3 will be 32 later this week and had a season roughly as valuable as curry, the 2-time defending MVP. that's how good he is.
― k3vin k., Monday, May 1, 2017 4:42 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
We're both obv gonna take homer sides on this one but I think it's already a conversation being that he does already have two MVPs to his name. But probably a better convo for a few years from now yeah.
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 16:41 (seven years ago) link
altho cp has made the all defense and all nba teams like 10 straight years haha
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 16:43 (seven years ago) link
i think the rockets will take the series and even though i love the spurs and pop, i wouldn't mind seeing a warriors/rockets series. assuming the Warriors can get past the Jazz!!!!!!
― nomar, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 16:45 (seven years ago) link
if steph's game deteriorates quickly for whatever reason you could make a case for cp3 being better simply on longevity, but if his career has a long tail i think his career will be definitively better
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 16:52 (seven years ago) link
fair. guess it also depends how much stock you put into team post-season success.
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 16:53 (seven years ago) link
i think even if you put the team and individual awards success behind, the magnitude of steph's offensive game is > cp3. so you have to a. put a lot of stock in point guard defense and b. cp3's defense above steph's to say that cp3 is >
again this assumes that steph's career plays out fairly normally
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 16:55 (seven years ago) link
chris paul has the highest offensive rating....ever
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 16:59 (seven years ago) link
word. i don't believe he's the best offensive player of all time tho.
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:00 (seven years ago) link
just checked that list and it's weird
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:04 (seven years ago) link
Gallo above Harden/Curry... Calderon above Curry? Two defensive centers in the top 5, one of which is the worst free throw shooter of all time.
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:06 (seven years ago) link
(talking about active players only)
here's the thing about paul -- you can't find a metric or a framework that doesn't love him. (haralabob mentioned something like this in the recent simmons podcast.) every time a new framework comes out, whether it's PER, or win shares, or real plus-minus, every system basically thinks he's not only an elite player but one of the best ever. his stature will probably age well because it seems like whatever the next dominant framework is will recognize his greatness. it seems cliche at this point to say it, but he does things outside the box score that matter a ton. and he's one of the best defenders ever at his position
that said curry obviously is incredibly great and his peak is almost certainly better than paul's peak. throw in a couple more rings and it's going to be hard to deny him a spot ahead of chris. but i just hope people realize when his career is over that paul was one of the 15 or 20 best players ever.
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:07 (seven years ago) link
ftr i don't think offensive rating is a great stat (simmons loves it for some reason tho simmons really does not get stats) but the players on the top of that list definitely tend if be great offensive players
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:08 (seven years ago) link
dont disagree w that at all xp
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:12 (seven years ago) link
guys like gobert, deandre, and tyson chandler perenially being on those ORTG leaderboards always confused me and i used to chalk it up to lineup effects and multicollinearity but when you listen to guys inside the league they all stress how important setting good picks and being a rim-runner are. def feels like those are underappreciated attributes
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:13 (seven years ago) link
elite alley oop finishers seem like they'll always inherently be rated highly by efficiency based metrics since they only take shots with like an 80% chance of going in, which i think emphasizes that even advanced metrics are still somewhat limited, since we know that rim running is a helpful skill, we just don't know *how* much... and it's probably not that much. but maybe it is!
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:16 (seven years ago) link
yeah they are good players for sure and fine offensive players but like MJ is number 17 on that list...
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:17 (seven years ago) link
ORTG doesn't take into account fg% tho, it's just +/- while the player is on offense. which speaks to outside-the-box score stuff in players like those who average 10-12 points a game
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:17 (seven years ago) link
but i just hope people realize when his career is over that paul was one of the 15 or 20 best players ever.
this seems to be at the heart of all your CP arguments, fair enough. hopefully you know ILH is smart enough to realize this.
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:18 (seven years ago) link
but yeah agreed ORTG has flaws. i think the best current metric is RPM, tho it's not perfect either and needs to be supplemented with other stats and the eye test for sure
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:19 (seven years ago) link
― Spottie, Tuesday, May 2, 2017 1:18 PM (thirty-eight seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i know haha. i am easily trolled about chris
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:20 (seven years ago) link
well. i'm not sure i'd say chris paul is one of the best 15 or 20 players ever! i mean maybe. i'd have to look into it. but don't lump me into that.......
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:26 (seven years ago) link
yeah i was just thinking generally we all agree he's one of the best to do it. Not sure what number i would put him at this point but he's still got lots of years left.
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:27 (seven years ago) link
he's one of the best to ever do it if we're talking about nut punching
― J0rdan S., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:33 (seven years ago) link
and playoff choking. ayooo
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:37 (seven years ago) link
>:(
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:40 (seven years ago) link
lol tony bennett cant even make it in turkeyhttp://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/former-no-1-overall-nba-draft-pick-anthony-bennett-cut-by-turkish-pro-team/
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:41 (seven years ago) link
and Strauss's last piece for espn, about curry
http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/19256296/golden-state-warriors-steph-curry-stopped-only-kevin-durant
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 17:44 (seven years ago) link
i should be studying but i just sent simmons a mailbag question. included:
- Most seasons with a PER of 25 or higher (CP3 tied for 6th): http://bkref.com/tiny/IZDU2- Most seasons with a WS/48 of 0.225 or better (CP3 tied for 6th, and he and LeBron will probably be 1-2 when it's all over): http://bkref.com/tiny/jf08C- Most seasons with a box plus-minus of 7.5 or higher (CP3 tied for 3rd): http://bkref.com/tiny/RQZbE
― k3vin k., Tuesday, 2 May 2017 18:13 (seven years ago) link
currys top seasons warped the whole dang game but so far theres only been two of those, paul comfortably ahead for now
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 18:50 (seven years ago) link
it was really only last year that curry warped the whole dang game, 14-15 just looked like a normal peak season
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 18:56 (seven years ago) link
last year was utterly insane its true
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 18:59 (seven years ago) link
easily the best season either of them has had
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 19:00 (seven years ago) link
it was like when Randy Moss scored 23 TDs and the pats went 16-0. or when Ichiro swept into MLB and led the Mariners to 116 wins in his rookie season.
― nomar, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 19:01 (seven years ago) link
ha
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 19:03 (seven years ago) link
funny thing is steph has under performed in the offs and won and cp3 has over performed and lost
― lag∞n, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link
mean. so mean.
― Spottie, Tuesday, 2 May 2017 19:04 (seven years ago) link