With all this talk about prog and epics maybe it's time there was a GENTLE GIANT ALBUMS POLL

Been thinking back to times when it seemed like there was so much more pressure for the new album of a big band to be the best thing ever. More pressure to reinvent themselves. Seems like it stopped around mid-00s but maybe it didn't.

I always hated guys who wanted the bands to keep doing the same thing, but I've started to think that there's probably a lot of bands who should have milked a certain sound for way longer and ended up squandering a lot of their juice on trying to stay relevant and innovative. Maybe screwing themselves up because they didn't progress naturally.

well they regret it because it didn't work! I mean Gentle Giant wasn't going to have a hit no matter what they did, but Renaissance's inability to stay relevant was a bit surprising - they seemed like exactly the sort of band that could've transitioned to New Wave.

Really? Their strengths were in the folky and orchestra stuff.

"Northern Lights" by Renaissance is a really pretty pop song. The Camera Camera album, their ostensible new wave attempt, is dire.

I mean - they had great vocals, great sense of melody, and they've always been very keyboard-based. you'd they would've been able to cobble together a halfway decent New Wave album. and yeah I realize it doesn't always work that way.

I actually agree with all of that! in 1981 I was so into new wave, and I *wanted* Renaissance to make a modern sounding, Eurythmics-style record - I could even hear it in my head. But it wasn't to be.

There are a bunch of prog bands that lost the thread '75-'77

The irony is that this is when Rush was at its prog apex.

Acquiring The Taste... the front cover art looks like someone's ass is going to be licked until you unfold it, was this intentional?

Good album but I don't know where I'd rank it. I think "Black Cat would have been better as an instrumental because all the non-singing parts are fantastic.

Did Tony Visconti produce any other prog bands?

he worked on "shine on brightly" - assisted denny cordell, though, didn't take the lead on that

he produced bowie's the man who sold the world, an album prog as there is

I say the choirboy member is a great singer.

Here's a track I made about 10 years ago based off of samples from Advent of Panurge

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dqj9sl59shuhf4x/Pan%20Urge.m4a?dl=0

Kerry Minnear...the coolest uncoolest MF ever...there was a video circulating a few years ago of him singing a song he’d written for his church...it was the sweetest thing...

I didn't know he was an actual church singer.

I don’t think he is...might be a warden or something

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GjCuVGcnTQ

"I remember the good things, how can you forget?"

Free Hand is really good, fun bunch of songs. The Peel session of "On Reflection" is well worth hearing because it was substantially rewritten.

Despite some great songs on The Power And The Glory and an enjoyable overall construction, there's something a bit underwhelming about it for me.

would really love if there was an entire album full of music like the instrumental section of "Edge of Twilight"

Acquiring the Taste is the MOST Gentle Giant album. I would have voted for Free Hand.

the live acapella section they do on "Free Hand" (the song) is probably the single greatest moment in their catalogue

I would have voted for In A Glass House, which I think is their best record, though I can't call it "definitive" because it lacks an acapella showcase like that one you mentioned or "Knots" or "Design"

Any of the 1971-1975 records is a defensible choice, maybe Interview as well.

I do find this thread title funny, though, because there's not one GG song I would call an epic (unless you count live medleys).

maybe if you define "epic" by length. I know a lot of people consider "Buckingham Green" by Ween to be an epic even though it's only like 4 minutes long. GG have a lot of tunes like that - "Advent of Panruge" for example.

i've been spending a lot of time with this band lately. in one of the more wtf episodes of my concertgoing life, i once saw gentle giant and kiss on the same night in the same venue but under separate admissions.

http://ggconcerts.on-reflection.org/part5_files/image136.jpg

there are some awesome concert videos on YouTube, they're definitely a band you have to witness in action before you truly understand how damn awesome they really were

yup. and y'know, they were all grounded in r&b from before they went "prog." so when they put a funk beat behind all that progginess, that mother *moves*.

Yup, like "Runaway" is basically a procession of riffs and grooves that are super funky and natural-feeling despite the frequent time signature shifts

Interview is very underrated, every bit as good as Free Hand imo

Giant For A Day is the only real dog in their back catalogue, Civilian was a decent enough attempt by a noodly prog band to respond to new wave but it was too little too late by that point.

Yeah Giant For A Day is mostly lame, but it does have "Friends" which is pretty uncharacteristic for them but is such an adorable, uplifting song. Actually "wholesome" is the word I'm looking for. I feel like John Weathers could have made a nice folky children's album

Interview is very underrated, every bit as good as Free Hand imo

Outside of "Timing" I have never really been able to wrap my head around that one. I remember it being real prickly and short on actual hooks but maybe I should give it another go

agree that Civilian is pretty decent - some of it (like "Inside Out") is really quite good and I think you could argue that they might've actually been able to pull off a turn into Cars or Utopia-like territory. but alas it's just one of those albums with no conceivable audience. you could argue they should've just changed the band name entirely.

"I Lost My Head" was the key to Interview for me. One of their greatest not-epic epics I think, where they really show off their full range (pretty, baroque-ish Minnear-sung A section -> bombastic, hard-rocking D. Shulman-belted B section with funky extended outro)

John Weathers (as a drummer, not singing "Friends") was really the one who kept their rock records together. The early records are great, but they don't harness propulsion and power until Octopus.

yeah one funny thing about ATT is that they almost seem afraid to rock n' roll, as though they'd pigeonholed themselves as this medieval novelty group not unlike Gryphon. 3 Friends grooves a lot more and by Glass House they were doing full-on power riffs

Weathers is the real stand out in those live videos - not only is his ability to play these overly complex parts way more impressive when you can actually see it, he makes these crazy faces the entire time, like he is so ~~in the zone~~ that he almost seems unaware of anything else around him, just totally in outer space.

This is the best live recording I've heard on Youtube. Incredible energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRT5zYkoUqk

is it just me or might one of those violin counterpoint melodies in "Plain Truth" have been the inspiration for the main Super Mario Bros. melody? I'm talking about the bit that comes in at 1:07. always makes me think of Mario

likely just a coincidence...but Dr. Mario does rip off a chunk of Karn Evil 9 Second Impression. or maybe they both lifted it from the same place? check out 1:29 here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlhp-Qbuk1k

It could have been some subconscious influence seeping through. I would not be surprised if Nintendo composers were/are major prog heads.

That melody is from "St. Thomas" by Sonny Rollins, which itself is based on traditional songs.

yeah...I assumed that was borrowed from somewhere, but I would imagine that the VGM composer (who was born in '57) lifted it from ELP, because ELP is, for some reason, super popular in Japan. Emerson was doing shows there regularly up until his suicide. the chirpiness of the melody in Dr. Mario certainly recalls him

ok I found a cheap copy of Interview so I'm giving it a proper listen. I dunno if it's "as good as Free Hand" but it's definitely the Draft 7.30 to FH's Confield

It's fine, but you can see that maybe they'd gone as far in their prog style as they could. It makes the change they made on The Missing Piece a little more comprehensible.

Interview and The Missing Piece are both on the same disc on the Chrysalis box set and I think the latter is the best of the two. "I'm Turning Around" and "As Old as You're Young" are both particularly great. Just love how "As Old as You're Young" builds in complexity, kind of just want it to keep growing.

imo Interview is "better" in that it pushes their style about as far as it could go, tunes be damned. by The Missing Piece it almost seemed like they were apologizing for going prog. but it's definitely a more listenable album, kind of underrated among the fanbase really. Giant for a Day is the one that really goes south.

But The Missing Piece is still plenty prog, again the complexity of "As Old as You're Young"

How many members stayed playing music because I suspect a band like this couldn't have a reunion because their skills can't just be picked up again to the same level if they stopped playing so long. Is there any examples of virtuosos quit playing then able to pick it up again after long years of absence? I would think that once you get to a certain level it becomes such a part of your identity that it's difficult to put down

the only relevant story I can think of is Phil Collins trying to fill in for the encore on a Musical Box performance and not really being able to do it. he wrote something about being in disbelief at how technical his pars were.

afaik none of the Gentle Giant guys did much after the band broke up. I think John Weathers got some session work but there's not much there. Derek and Phil Schulman don't appear to have a single credit that isn't GG or Simon Dupree. that's pretty remarkable given how great a band they were.

The Shulman brothers went into the business side of music business, of course.

I always wondered if they pitched themselves by saying "well we know a lot about what ~doesn't~ sell"

Lol. Also I think there was a partial reunion called Three Friends with new/session members who did live shows a few years ago.