Chapo Trap House and the rise of the dirtbag left

Brendan was otm about Sorkin's irritating dependence on repetition.

Can't wait to hear Chapo tear into the David Palmer administration too

sorkin's zingier dialogue always feels like the one liners people think of as comebacks an hour after the fact

a theory of modern liberalism and predictor of the Obama administration.

So glad Brooklyn has been able to produce a radio hour in which the first black president's career can be revealed to have been secretly predicted by a shit network tv show

well, it "predicted" Obama in that the Jimmy Smits character in the later seasons was based on Obama

did they actually compare it to the Obama admin as a drawn out thing or just clown Sorkin? I'm down for the latter, the former does sound dumb

imo the trying to reason with republicans who were blockading was very West Wing-esque

apparently Obama recently mentioned about how if he knew they genuinely had no interest in doing work he'd have pitched full-blown single payer instead of a bill that was basically an olive branch

"we will do everything in our power to make sure you get no second term, including not doing our jobs"

"hey guys, here's the heritage foundation's healthcare bill, are we friends now?"

xp which is insane, because Mitch McConnell said from the outset that their one and only goal was ensuring that Obama would not get a second term. He should've gone all the way.

secretly predicted by a shit network tv show

it's more like they peddled what his base would fall for

Think about what politicians and the mass media have in common for a second there, genius

apparently Obama recently mentioned about how if he knew they genuinely had no interest in doing work he'd have pitched full-blown single payer

he'd have failed, cuz too many dems were (and still are) beholden to big money interests (wall street, insurance companies, etc.). they would have joined the Rs and shot down single payer.

the point of political compromise is that you start close to your ideal position (or in these overton window bullshit times, two steps more severe) and then hash it out until you come to a version that can get enough votes while still being something you would support

if that meant compromising to the extent it got corporatist democrats on board then it still wouldn't have been pandering at roadblock idiots

there are so many pieces in place that you could fix without going full single payer, and amazingly, this was spoken about quite well by a guest on chapo

tbh the hosts barely got in many of their normal snipefests

I mean, the Obama admin put out a proposal that was nearly exactly what the republican playbook had as its hedge against single payer.

The congressional republicans, on the other hand, are currently busy cheering on all the states fucking up every part of the plan they can, and are busy passing ten week bans on abortion

How is this any different than people on facebook comparing Trump to Voldemort? The West Wing is a fantasy.

it is nearly the same, the only diff is the show was about a fictional oval office

I get that, I just think it's a stretch to extrapolate "this is a show I enjoy" into "this show perfectly encapsulates my entire worldview," even in the case of a political show like WW

It's not comparing Obama to Bartlett, they spend the hour talking about how The West Wing is symptomatic of contemporary liberalism.

Annie and her sisters and her cousins and some shots of uncle ted

and by contemporary liberalism we mean all liberalism since goldman and berkman tried to kill frick?

phil ochs already shot the fish in this barrel I think

I read through more tweets related to this whole topic/thread and it wasn't good, but this particular tweet struck me as chapo-lite
https://twitter.com/kathbarbadoro/status/855086073550123008

heyo

also, never read responses on twitter because the people who literally try to infer things that are easily googled will just fucking blow you away

neo... liberalism. like the new left? is this about bernie sanders?

that was a direct quote of an infamous deray tweet

that's what I mean, the responses to deray from people trying to define it... there are a bunch who are trying to puzzle through it

like, his question is bad, but the answers that are not snark or people trying to do his work for him, are worse than the question

ahahahhahahahhahahahaha that is fucking amazing

How is this any different than people on facebook comparing Trump to Voldemort? The West Wing is a fantasy.

If those people's thesis was "the modern republican party is directly inspired by reading 'Harry Potter', thinks it's Voldermort and acts accordingly" maybe.

^ defensible thesis imo

Better than being inspired by the Turner Diaries or Port of Saints imo

How is this any different than people on facebook comparing Trump to Voldemort? The West Wing is a fantasy

Because a ton of real life think tank wonks, editors, and pols (specifically centrist Dems) worship TWW and/or the mindset that informs it

lol was he going to pitch single payer to the health insurance lobbyists writing the bill

idk TWW was created in a political age where Bill Clinton would bring Newt to the White House and charm him into concessions. Sorkin left that show in like 2003. It was a different world.

would that be when they were teaming up to dismantle the welfare state

I believe it was during budget negotiations when Gingrich said he had to go into "detox for several hours" after meeting with Clinton and being "sucked in" by his charm

I think the central conceit that the high-minded, sanctimonious idealism of Aaron Sorkin is symptomatic of "the way all liberals think" is inaccurate and one's enjoyment (or even 'worship') of a television show is not indicative of an entire worldview.

Honestly, what I think it boils down to is people in Washington are narcissists, and they like watching shows about themselves. And if a show like TWW portrays White House office drones as brilliant, charismatic defenders of the enlightenment, they're gonna respond positively to it.

I dunno, there's certainly a pompous "have you no shame" house style that a lot of liberals love which feels pretty reminiscent of "The West Wing" to me, though obviously it predates it.

I think it may date back to this

I was gonna namedrop Joseph Welch in my previous post to make it clear I know where the quote's from but thought it'd be assumed, oh well.

keith olbermann is perhaps the most noxious and visible figure in this vein

it's like tww style happened, got wrecked, and the only thing that got passed on for chapo was the smug. sorry millenials.

well, yeah... The liberal fantasy is always one where decency and empathetic wonkiness win out over lizard brain antics. I don't really see the Chapo fantasy as an improvement.

It's more that the liberal fantasy is 'listening to both sides' and starting from a position of deep compromise. Policy differences aside, Chapo's beef with liberals (and TWW) largely seems to be "that's not how politics works."

that the range of actual outcomes and expectations has shifted dramatically in 20 years does not necessarily make a depiction ridiculous or unrealistic. it does highlight that the current range of possible outcomes is radically changed, and to _continue_ to expect the effectiveness of those old strategies and practices as depicted would be dumb. but it does not mean you're woke as fuck to recognize that difference.

(srsly, i have never seen tww, i have a highly mediated experience on sorkin shit)

Listening To Both Sides is part of it, but also an overall deep respect for everything institutional and strong belief that the system works - so in the end the day can be saved by an inspirational speech.

I was out with a couple friends at a bar in a local college town a month or so back and ended up talking to this young woman who mentioned she was part of the group kind of scouting out whether this political science professor should run for congress. The conversation turned to television and she was strongly advocating Aaron Sorkin shows, first the West Wing. I kind of shrugged it off and said I wasn't a Sorkin fan, that I thought it was kind of an overblown view and government isn't really like that. She replied with, "Well, I like The Newsroom better!" (I ran away screaming)

so the whole thing with young people thinking the West Wing is inspirational and spurning their interest in government happens

from what I've gathered, the whole Newsroom shtick is even worse in that TWW did have monologues but was more debate-focused and the monologues tended to be political figures giving speeches so there's a hint of moderation

The Newsroom is worse in that it took real news events and gave the main character to didactically rant wisdom directly at the camera

xpost a lot of kids got into archery because of the Hunger Games too