that's interesting! which spin guide?
― the late great, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:24 (seven years ago) link
we don't recognize any other spin guides round these parts
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:25 (seven years ago) link
Prong: formed 1986Helmet: formed 1989
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:25 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egzF66hDkFs
― Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:25 (seven years ago) link
This is too early (1990) to really be Helmet-influenced, but the main riff, and especially that drum sound, are definitely working the same territory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HbF3EAt3ck
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:35 (seven years ago) link
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:25 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Yeah, but Prong used to sound like this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aci-TMaVv1c
They probably got a little leaner thanks to Helmet
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:45 (seven years ago) link
Not saying they bit their shit or anything
I mean, the real beginning of this is probably, technically
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1g9PFtSCKw
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:47 (seven years ago) link
the GOAThttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vm0th4zgubw
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:48 (seven years ago) link
I never knew the Notwist sounded like that!
Also I really do not miss '90s rock drumming and tempos for the most part.
― change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:55 (seven years ago) link
From my 2016 interview with Tommy Victor:
What’s the best riff you’ve ever written?Hell, I don’t know. I’ve stolen or borrowed or been handed everything. Some people say I wrote the [Marilyn Manson] “Beautiful People” riff, but I don’t remember because I was so high on coke. Someone probably hummed it to me anyway. I would say the main riff of “Belief System” on X – No Absolutes. It was the first riff that ever came to me on a seven-string guitar. And probably the last. I have trouble enough on six.
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:58 (seven years ago) link
the best riff he wrote was the bassline to marilyn and the moviestars "sex means nothing when you're dead"
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:00 (seven years ago) link
i think this fits quite nicely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0l-Oqabipk
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:03 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEJx-ntj9ss
btw this genre is called door-core
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:04 (seven years ago) link
Man, Clutch are just the fucking worst.
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:09 (seven years ago) link
yeah
― kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:11 (seven years ago) link
I don't miss it because some bands still sound like this.
― billstevejim, Friday, 14 April 2017 01:53 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BGi8u8BtaA
― o. nate, Friday, 14 April 2017 02:35 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipKiXt5PkWs
― billstevejim, Friday, 14 April 2017 02:45 (seven years ago) link
I think I'm still kinda unclear on the theme because I was about to post "Possum Kingdom."
― billstevejim, Friday, 14 April 2017 02:50 (seven years ago) link
yeah, the SPIN guide made the connection between Helmet's two-note riffs and the limits of Coltrane's modal jazz
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:23 PM (yesterday)
Uh, two-note riffs were one of the main aesthetic things produced by no wave -- dunno where to begin with the weird conceit of this thread
also Morphine and Helmet were contemporaries so calling them "post-Helmet" is uh, a bit "the Beatles are more prevalent than pizza"
― sarahell, Friday, 14 April 2017 02:54 (seven years ago) link
helmet drummer and bobby caldwell the only two drummers who would be on my top ten list of rock drummers based on two records each. bill ward, helmet drummer, bobby caldwell, dave lombardo, and, uh, six more drummers. and i rarely listen to the first helmet album so really kinda based on one album. oh and can drummer. so them and five more rock drummers. oh and joy division guy maybe. and ringo? maybe ringo. i don't actually make a lot of lists...
― scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 03:07 (seven years ago) link
I think post-Helmet in this case refers more to post- in the A&R sense, like "let's promote this band with a Buzz Clip because Headbangers Ball has been playing more Helmet lately."
― billstevejim, Friday, 14 April 2017 03:12 (seven years ago) link
If you can't tell why Helmet sounds different than DNA I can't help you.
Yes, and Prong predates them. Thread is about specific songs/a specific sound
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 03:31 (seven years ago) link
I just think it's weird that you are considering Helmet the "origin" of this, when after a number of posts you realize that Faith No More did it earlier, and were most likely more influential.
Some of this is just de-tuned/grungified minimal riffs that on a formal level, you can trace back to Teenage Jesus and Sonic Youth, for example
I think your understanding of "modal" is up there with your buddy deej's infamous hemiola
Thread is about specific songs/a specific sound
fair enough, but why not just call it "bands that sound like mid-90s helmet" -- maybe add HAHAHAHAHA in all caps after it for old times sake
― sarahell, Friday, 14 April 2017 04:38 (seven years ago) link
I think you may be looking for this:
https://youtu.be/ap3L_NCZk4s
― jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:18 (seven years ago) link
Or:
https://youtu.be/624dcA8YY7Q
― jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:20 (seven years ago) link
Or I'm missing the point.
― jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:22 (seven years ago) link
To be fair I got thrown off by Whale
― jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:23 (seven years ago) link
Oh duh
― jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:27 (seven years ago) link
https://youtu.be/wX6H2SjTLUg
― jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:28 (seven years ago) link
If it would make this a safe space for no wave fans, imagine the thread title as "90s riffs that sound like mid-90s Helmet," sure
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 05:44 (seven years ago) link
"Savory" is a good one
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 05:45 (seven years ago) link
Yeah, "Hobo" and Unsane aren't staccato enough for what I'm going for, but are close enough to hang out in the thread
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 05:46 (seven years ago) link
Soundgarden - My Wavehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEbYxEXM2cE
― Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 07:35 (seven years ago) link
Silverchair - Freakhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KHwuOtcALQ
Stone Temple Pilots - Silver Gun Superman (just the intro probs)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmVZDopspPU
Collective Soulol - Where the River Flowshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tX57jqetDGA
Everclear - Santa Monicahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MW6E_TNgCsY
― Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 08:04 (seven years ago) link
Bulls On Parade more fitting than Wind Below Imo
― Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 08:06 (seven years ago) link
Deftones - Around the Furhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv0rV0N3SrY
Sevendust - Wafflehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya8dT7oC8qA
― Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 08:16 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAqZb52sgpU
― Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 08:27 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R2Oyq8O2OA
― Wes Brodicus, Friday, 14 April 2017 08:28 (seven years ago) link
Therapy? - Screamager
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDVsIvvFtcs
― chap, Friday, 14 April 2017 08:32 (seven years ago) link
If it would make this a safe space for no wave fans,
it's more like being told there's delicious ice cream in the conference room, and then coming in and finding a bunch of grunge bro-core turds
― sarahell, Friday, 14 April 2017 08:47 (seven years ago) link
I think of Swans "Like A Drug" as one of the earlier strikes of this sound, and the closest sonic link between Prong and Swans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTIN6RsgLNo
I've never thought of these riffs as modal so much as thrash breakdowns eased into mid-tempo or slower.
― pavane to the darryl of strawberry (bendy), Friday, 14 April 2017 10:55 (seven years ago) link
I think I'm still kinda unclear on the theme because I was about to post "Possum Kingdom."― billstevejim, Thursday, April 13, 2017 10:50 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― billstevejim, Thursday, April 13, 2017 10:50 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title. This is an interesting mish-mosh of a thread. I hate almost all of the music in it. I feel like Biohazard has a role to play in this, but none of the three songs I checked out on youtube fit the criteria and that's all the time I have to listen to Biohazard today.
I'd never heard that Fishbone before though and it's great.
― how's life, Friday, 14 April 2017 12:11 (seven years ago) link
Helmet definitely had a unique take on that type of staccato power chord riffing, but there definitely was other bands that were also doing a spin on Malcolm Young too. 'Walk' by Pantera is a 90s riff tune that came along same time that has that big ker-chunk that the nu-metal bands did too. I think a big part of why that stuff worked was that the simple rhythm could get a pit to go bonkers. That stuff is all over your moshpart/breakdowns in metal and hardcore.
― earlnash, Friday, 14 April 2017 12:25 (seven years ago) link
Oh yeah, of course Pantera.
― how's life, Friday, 14 April 2017 12:26 (seven years ago) link
Pantera - who made a turn toward that chugging style in 1992 - were definitely accused of ripping off Helmet on "Walk."
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Friday, 14 April 2017 13:25 (seven years ago) link
"Possum Kingdom" is a good one, I never thought of it that way, but yes
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 13:36 (seven years ago) link
I really want to do a DJ set of post-Helmet groove alt metal and post-Onyx yell-rap
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 13:43 (seven years ago) link
Like, if these kids can get rich doing emo night DJ sets, why won't anyone pay me to do judgement night DJ sets
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 14:05 (seven years ago) link
the only green day song i have ever really liked:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNq9gmY_Oz4
― scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 14:53 (seven years ago) link
and i totally love it because i love meantime.
― scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 14:54 (seven years ago) link
well, the first part anyway. not the punky thing at the end.
― scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 14:55 (seven years ago) link
this is totally one of my top 20 rock singles of the 90's and its because i love helmet AND bow wow wow.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRHPvY3oSXE
― scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 15:00 (seven years ago) link
they were cute too. the singer and guitarist look like cute britpoppers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M54_GRmyeJM
― scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 15:12 (seven years ago) link
― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Friday, April 14, 2017 6:25 AM (two hours ago)
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
― sarahell, Friday, 14 April 2017 16:25 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgX-HKXTb-M
― MaresNest, Friday, 14 April 2017 16:28 (seven years ago) link
Wow, I tooooooootally forgot that Silverchair song. That's exactly what I'm looking for itt
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 17:04 (seven years ago) link
Can Collective Soul too! Thank you Spottie for understanding me.
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 17:09 (seven years ago) link
Deftones song is more like this other proto staccato/modal/minimal alt-metal signpost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXTE5wAtBzo
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 17:13 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvsQsao1F88
copped the helmet vocal style too
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 17:35 (seven years ago) link
is this isnt shitty post helmet staccato riffing then i duno what is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUBk4XDWTqU
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 17:43 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDvo5hDFYBg
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 17:46 (seven years ago) link
this one is more helmetty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McdWoeoO0kI
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 17:50 (seven years ago) link
this little way of riffing opened up so much in the 90s and I have no idea how contemporary band like Wrong just wants to do Helmet cosplay
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiQ5igNwmdY
― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 17:56 (seven years ago) link
damn thats really terrible
― kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 18:00 (seven years ago) link
Always felt that QOTSA were Helmet inspired
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s88r_q7oufE
― On Some Faraday Beach (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 14 April 2017 18:27 (seven years ago) link
(but not 90s, soz)
That Galactic Cowboys "If I Were a Killer" tune also touches another mid 90s sonic thing with the AIC harmony in the chorus. Hadn't heard that one before.
― earlnash, Friday, 14 April 2017 19:43 (seven years ago) link
I'm determined to nail this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbXciBKcfQ8
― billstevejim, Sunday, 16 April 2017 06:27 (seven years ago) link
perhaps more pre-Rammstein than post-Helmet
― billstevejim, Sunday, 16 April 2017 06:32 (seven years ago) link
xp "No One Knows" does kinda sound like this Helmet song released 2 years later https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcGYkLbVMhs
― billstevejim, Sunday, 16 April 2017 06:36 (seven years ago) link
wrong is great imo but yeah, helmet cosplay
― ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Sunday, 16 April 2017 07:15 (seven years ago) link
The Wrong album is really great actually. It's a melodic Meantime for sure
― Odysseus, Sunday, 16 April 2017 12:19 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ace_0UpQ0MI
― billstevejim, Sunday, 16 April 2017 23:34 (seven years ago) link
hahaha holy shit that Smile song, I haven't heard that in like 20 years.
― Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:25 (seven years ago) link
even the lyrics are simple...he's staring at the sun, he realizes he shouldn't have stared so long cos now he can't see at all!
― Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:27 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cI3QmT0TOHs
― Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:29 (seven years ago) link
it gets more traditional Sponge tho by the pre-choruses and verse
― Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:32 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRNVrel3ezg
― Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:34 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqeT9ooYKnM
― Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:36 (seven years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tOq25vBkso
― Machine Gunk Jelly (Spottie), Thursday, 6 September 2018 07:18 (five years ago) link
Just a remindah that Unrest did it first, better, and with a sense of humor! (my theory is that Wharton Tiers played the Helmet guys the tape, when they came into Fun City to record their first alb):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGm5XZiwQeE
― stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Thursday, 6 September 2018 18:17 (five years ago) link
(btw - I'm just kidding about that last part - tho I did mention this point to M4rk once, and he was like, "yeah, huh?")
― stan in the place where you work (morrisp), Thursday, 6 September 2018 18:25 (five years ago) link