Mike Trout needs his own thread

if he keeps this up for three more years the conversation would definitely start.

in terms of raw ability it's got to be either he or bonds. in terms of production relative to his peers, still got a while to go

i throw Mays in with those two.

even the all time greats from previous eras are in a tough spot comparing to today's players in terms of raw ability. strength, speed, conditioning, nutritional regimens for the average player are just so far above what they were several decades ago

going back to relative to his peers, here is a list of players trout, in his age-25 season, is likely to pass on the career WAR leaderboard this year:

sandy koufax
bernie williams
david wright
joe mauer
justin verlander
torii hunter
orlando cepeda
jason giambi
kirby puckett
mark teixiera
johan santana
mickey cochrane
fred mcgriff
enos slaughter
jeff kent
david ortiz
bill dickey
louis aparico
johnny damon

comparing players across too many generations just kind of gets silly. it's hard to imagine how trout would do in the 30 and 40s, riding around in buses without air conditioning, playing in heavy wool uniforms, getting routinely beaned by gritty pitchers named "bean", etc

xpost probably cano too

xxxp that's true. IMO I think today's players would kick the asses of the 1950's all-star team. mostly because the majority of them are dead, ha ha. but seriously.

from 1989 to 2004, Bonds had one duffer of a season, in 1999 when he hurt his elbow (cuz of all the steroids! say the tabloids). even then he still slugged over 600 and put up 3.3 WAR. granted he wasn't transcendent every one of those years, but his peak with SF is beyond anything that Trout's done, even though I guess it's possible for Trout to kick it up another level, he's still so young. if he puts up 3 or 4 more 9-10 WAR seasons I think a lot of people will be saying just that. then again the conversation started with Pujols too, and we all know how that turned out.

if you ignore era context, today's regulars are better athletes than yesteryear's greats, no doubt. xxp

...merely an all time great at his position and first ballot HOFer lol xp

well, yeah. Pujols is that great. But it seems like "three more seasons like this and he's in the conversation for the best ever" and his sudden decline coincided with each other.

I'm also just being glib. Baseball! ^_^

even the all time greats from previous eras are in a tough spot comparing to today's players in terms of raw ability.

Agree with the things you list after that, but wouldn't raw ability, because it's the most subjective/amorphous/unquantifiable of all those, be the least affected by era? Basically it exists in the realm of legend. To read about Bo Jackson the baseball player, his raw ability dwarfed every player before or since.

maybe "raw ability" is too subjective. by that meant what i listed afterward: strength, speed, conditioning, etc (most importantly, coaching, year-round training) and how that translates to absolute ability

did it again. absolute ability = baseball skills

anyone see the Trout doc on MLBN?

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/7417714/v1251990383/mike-trout-millville-to-mvp

no but i will now

i'm going to guess it's pretty boring

trout apparently got the neck gene from his dad

Dishes, laundry -- very difficult challenges he was forced to overcome.

somewhere in the swamps of jersey

already has regained his rightful place atop fWAR leaderboard

a spot that should be called the Trout position henceforth.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C99gAnvU0AA6Sw8.jpg

byron buxton's career bWAR: 1.9

mike trout's career bWAR by the time he was byron buxton's current age: 28.7

mike trout's bWAR through 20 games this season: 1.9

on pace for 15 WAR? nice

@jjcoop36
Angels bWAR position players update: Mike Trout 2.7 bWAR. Rest of Angels position players combined -0.3 bWAR.

somehow the angels are a .500 team

carrying the team on his neck

honestly not sure he's planning on slowing down this season. 2-2 with a HR, a double, and 2 walks today. up to 224 wRC+

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-preposterous-mike-trout/

i don't see the point of starting a thread for the other Angels, but i missed that CJ Cron was optioned to AAA.

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2017/5/23/15679836/mike-trout-angels-offense

it's amazing they're a .500 team with that roster

surely the Scioscia Era is in its dusk

sprained his thumb stealing second today. i've had that kind of injury before and it does not go away easily. hoping he's not out too long

The only old timer baseball analysis I can get behind is that diving into a base hands-first is dumb

sounds like he's going to be out 5-8 weeks. god dammit

daaaamn

sheeit

(Thumb): Trout had surgery to repair a torn UCL and a dorsal capsule in his left thumb but is ahead of schedule in his rehabilitation and is lining up to return prior to the All-Star break. (Updated June 13, 2017)

*punches the air*

still third in fWAR, sixth in bWAR

i just want him to continue his streak of top 2 finishes in the MVP race.

The situation is virtually identical to Kershaw last year: 149 innings, 2/3 of a season (guessing that's what Trout ends up playing), still finished third in WAR among pitchers and fifth in Cy Young voting. Normally I'd say top two would be extremely unlikely, but when you look at the leaders in WAR, there's lots of daylight. Give Judge one of the top two spots, then you've Betts (main competition), Altuve and Correa splitting votes, Garcia (possible), Hicks (no shot with Judge), and Simmons (no shot). So I could see that happening.

who is simmons? andrelton?

Yeah. Besides the fact he's a teammate of Trout's, how far back do you have to go to find a top two finisher who's contribution is largely defensive? (Actual question...Ozzie finished second in 1987--has there been anyone since?) Mind you, according to WAR, Simmons' value is primarily offensive this year.

well a good chunk of that offensive value is just the positional adjustment; he's hitting roughly league average. don't think he's the kind of guy who can really string together an MVP season, trout or no

Skimmed through all the MVP votes since '87, and I can't identify one defensive specialist who even finished in the Top Five of any MVP vote. Lots of great defenders, of course, but when Edmonds or I-Rod or Andruw Jones or Molina finished Top Five, it was in seasons where they had big years with the bat. When Lorenzo Cain finished third in 2015, and Lucroy finished high in 2014, they had great offensive years.

yeah simmons is a fun and super solid player, he's just not in that conversation