The Name of This POLL Is...- ILM artist poll #82 - TALKING HEADS - (voting is open until Sunday March 26, 2017)

not my consensus - Democratic Circus, Facts of Life, Cool Water are all chill-inducing

i appreciate the growing darkness in the second half of naked but beyond "cool water" the tunes really don't support it

can't ever consider it a bad record bc the first side is all jams imo. i disagree with the characterization of early byrne heads songs as "detached," they're only detached inasmuch as they're able to access from an angle an emotional core in bureaucracy and modernity, which i feel is best expressed by byrne singing "this must be the place" to a lamp. the only time his detachment bothers me is when it becomes indistinguishable from pastiche, e.g. on true stories the album. i enjoyed the youtube review of true stories embedded upthread bc neither reviewer is able to successfully apply the term "satire" to the film even though it has characteristics of it. feel like this is also true of talking heads records

Wow, thanks! Didn't know this existed - I love Houses in Motion (and Hassell on it)!

xxpost -
A mega pickle! 30-year mystery finally solved. Thank you!

also, can we drop the idea that "detached" by implication suggests immaturity?

plus, detachment as practiced by Byrne means not eschewing relationships with men and women but able to look at their motives wrly.

do agree that the extra guitars on "(Nothing But) Flowers" are beautiful.

xxxxp - About 'The Overload', from the David Bowman book:

The album would end with a glorious tune that didn’t really belong on Remain in Light. It was more a throwback to Fear of Music. But the song was too good to leave out. Jerry had been the chief architect of the piece. It was called “The Overload.”
David’s contributions to this song were said to be influenced by things he had read about a British group called Joy Division. He had never actually heard their albums, but he had read about them. The band played sublime dirges with a tribal-cum-industrial beat. Joy Division made schizophrenic trance drones. Soundtracks for nonexistent sci-fi movies. Ceremonial music for deep-tech fascist gatherings. The band’s singer was Jim Morrison without the fire. Iggy Pop eating glass instead of cutting up his chest. David worked on the mock–Joy Division song without listening to any of their albums. When he finally heard Joy Division, he was disappointed. They sounded closer to a conventional rock group than he’d thought. David had been fooled by the music critics. As for “The Overload,” it ended up sounding more like post-Animals Pink Floyd.

also, can we drop the idea that "detached" by implication suggests immaturity?

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, March 20, 2017 2:35 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

plus, detachment as practiced by Byrne means not eschewing relationships with men and women but able to look at their motives wrly.

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, March 20, 2017 2:36 PM (two minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

otm x2

When he finally heard Joy Division, he was disappointed. They sounded closer to a conventional rock group than he’d thought. David had been fooled by the music critics.

I'm sorry David Bowman is projecting his own disappointment -- this is what I disliked about the book.

jesus christ i can't imagine reading a whole book of that

The band played sublime dirges with a tribal-cum-industrial beat. Nope

Joy Division made schizophrenic trance drones. What

Soundtracks for nonexistent sci-fi movies. Nope

Ceremonial music for deep-tech fascist gatherings. wtf stop that.

The band’s singer was Jim Morrison without the fire. omg no

Iggy Pop eating glass instead of cutting up his chest. ...

I'm with Max to an extent. Struggling to decide which of Democratic Circus, Facts of Life, Cool Water* and Sax and Violins to remove from ballot. Otherwise dominated by MSABAF and FOM!

*well, no, CW is very safe.

I love this wide-ranging, witty interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhUq52YmeLA

― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 18 March 2017 03:10 (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Enjoyed this a lot, thanks. It may well be a carefully-honed public image, but they come across as very "people who have figured out how to live".

And thanks to you & Brad for deftly handling the 'detached' dig, which had me slapping my forehead.

Re-listening to Naked now. It's good! Not "re-work/re-submit my ballot" good, but good. Byrne is the weak link; a singer in a language I don't speak would improve it a lot. But I'm into it. The dub sound of "Mommy Daddy You and I" is great.

Chris & Tina as well are firing on all cylinders on that final record

think you might be missing some of who does what on that record

oh nm I coulda sworn they had other bassists at some point but I must be misremembering all the extra personnel from SMS on...

also, can we drop the idea that "detached" by implication suggests immaturity?
― the Rain Man of nationalism. (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, March 20, 2017 2:35 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I never intended that to be a "dig" at anyone. That's why I defined what I meant by 'immature' in my explanation further above. What I meant is: I feel early Byrne is skimming the surface of things in faux-detachment, underneath he's shitting his pants to have to get really involved, both as songwriter and singer. You know - like, yamming too much about style (styles of living; styles of acting), until he starts singing for real, and writing real, heartfelt songs about SOMETHING (which he would prove excellent, while unheralded, at) - all a plus in my book (not ideologically: purely on the evidence of the material).

Many of his later solo songs are angry, or utterly sad in their conclusions - 'A Self-Made Man'; 'They Are in Love' - but they are NOT detached any more. He's pissed off if need be, he cuts deeper for it, comes across stronger for it. To my ears/taste, of course.

For full disclosure (bear with me one last minute), I should postscript all of this by admitting I was a couple years too young to be able to experience the 'idiot glee' early 80s style period first hand - early Heads, but also Gang of Four, Wire before them, Eno's vocal albums, and the like. It's one of the rare music eras I (to my chagrin) find, if not "dated" (a word I hate with a passion), then a time capsule - what I'm hearing is young people with guts, but also "im-mature" i.e. too young yet to write something of real substance (some among them would then go on to do so, but with dimmer wattage on them as youth - especially if angry - is the be-all and end-all in R'n'R).

By the same token I have never fallen for post-punk white disco in purely musical terms - conversely, black disco a couple of years earlier was the first music I remember hearing, and enjoying on a pure, body level. That might explain a few things about my predilections/idiosincracies in all this. I am very aware that may be the reason the whole angst ingredient of early Byrne/TH goes over my head without me being able to enjoy it. It's like it's a time capsule I can't quite get (back) into.

they ought to be more careful
they're setting a bad example

oh nm I coulda sworn they had other bassists at some point but I must be misremembering all the extra personnel from SMS on...

― Οὖτις, Monday, March 20, 2017 6:50 PM (forty-five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Bob Babbitt said:

Another situation that happened to me was the first Talking Heads album.

I overdubbed the Bass parts, played with a pick. The sound was exactly like the parts on the record. They need the same notes but with a better feel and better execution. Yeah, no credits. The producers did not even tell the group.

http://bobbabbitt.com/Bob_Babbitts_Site/Whos_Playing_Bass.html

Ah, but Ed Stasium sez:

This will be brief...I want to set the record straight about Tina playing on TH77. At the sessions Bongiovi would show up once in a while and when he did he would proceed to the lounge and read airplane magazines. Lance was there most of the time, I was the only person involved in the recording of the project who was there for every minute of the process. Tina played bass on the ENTIRE LP, Bob Babbitt did come in and overdub on one or maybe two songs but at the mixing stage I did not put Babbitt's bass up in the mix and the "producers" knew none the better! I seem to recall that I may have "Ghosted" Bob on the chorus (for effect) of "Love Has Come To Town" under Tina's bass for alas, I was WAY on the band's side.

http://www.electricalaudio.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=46055

yeah everything I hear on later records leads me to believe that Tina is playing on 77

she kicks ass on live recordings from that era imo

oh good another man saying a woman can't play an instrument

I feel early Byrne is skimming the surface of things in faux-detachment, underneath he's shitting his pants to have to get really involved, both as songwriter and singer. You know - like, yamming too much about style (styles of living; styles of acting), until he starts singing for real, and writing real, heartfelt songs about SOMETHING...

...I was a couple years too young to be able to experience the 'idiot glee' early 80s style period first hand - early Heads, but also Gang of Four, Wire before them, Eno's vocal albums, and the like. ...what I'm hearing is young people with guts, but also "im-mature" i.e. too young yet to write something of real substance

― Max Florian, Monday, March 20, 2017 4:06 PM (thirty-one minutes ago)

i get that you're only describing what you hear and feel, a reflection of your personal tastes. on that level, you aren't (and really can't be) wrong. i agree that overtly cerebral music produced by angry/snarky young people all but inevitably lacks a certain emotional complexity and perspective on life. for that kind of thing, we typically turn to more "mature" artists. compounding this, the post-punk & new wave music of the late 70s & early 80s is often deeply cynical about the value of emotion and even humanity itself.

but none of that really applies to talking heads, at least not in a negative sense. early on, byrne, like most of his peers, does seem to place himself in subversive opposition the pop romanticism of the 60s counterculture. and yeah, his lyrics often come armored in layers of baffling, pokerfaced irony. but he's not a nihilist. even at his most seemingly detached, he's making an earnest attempt to describe the texture of modern urban experience. what's it like to be one among many, to work, reside, think and couple not as some promethean/dionysian lone wolf art-hero, but rather as a module: citizen, friend, lover, peer.

nor does his perspective seem to have changed all that much by the time we get to naked. while byrne's lyrics may be a bit warmer and more politically direct, he's still wryly observing styles of living & acting ("mr. jones"), still framing the human condition as an exercise in systems theory ("the facts of life").

yeah everything I hear on later records leads me to believe that Tina is playing on 77

Better yet, listen to the 1975 CBS Demos and you can't deny how great Tina is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3HVf0-BIRE

btw i really liked true stories (the movie)!!!!

yeah me too, although i've never made it all the way through

xposts - Tina Weymouth is p much the single reason I decided to buy and learn how to play bass guitar

“We’re not the same as we used to be,” David Byrne tells the crowd at Ontario, Canada’s Heatwave Festival in the summer of 1980. He sounds nervous—but then again, he pretty much always sounds nervous.

http://pitchfork.com/thepitch/1309-talking-heads-road-to-remain-in-light/

voted

Been listening to a bootleg of that Heatwave show a lot lately. First Remain in Light show right? They sound great, Belew on fire, Tina screams WOO! into the mic every 10 seconds, extremely flat backup vox during Once in a Lifetime. they sound coked up - i remember reading one of their backing musicians (maybe it was Belew) saying that they walked into the dressing room and saw all the Talking Heads doing lines of coke off the backs of the necks of their guitars.

FWIW, I've always thought of Tina the same way I think of Paul Simonon, a guy of modest talents but ample enthusiasm who really grew into his role. It's Chris Franz who I don't rate much, though of course he is the right drummer for the TH (the same way, say, Harrison's Modern Lovers co-hort David Robinson was right for the Cars).

Relistened to the whole discography plus Tom Tom Club for the poll and enjoyed all of it, but it mostly confirmed my existing preferences. Remain in Light is my favorite thing they ever did by a substantial margin, even though there are songs I love from every album. I wish there had been at least one more album in that vein before they moved on, but maybe it's the kind of thing you can only really do once. My album ranking is more or less a bell curve, with only '77 and Naked excluded from my top 8 (top 7 + Tom Tom Club).

And I think Chris and Tina are an ace rhythm section, but it's also true that a lot of the band's funk comes from Byrne's rhythm guitar.

no idea how someone could put True Stories above 77!

the closest thing they did to Remain in Light afterwards is definitely the fantastic live Catherine Wheel tracks, but I wish they had explored that sound a bit more, especially the Seen And Not Seen/Listening Wind vibe. It took me a long time to really get into anything else after starting with Remain in Light because of how different it is really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct-Ne0a1zCk

just stumbled across Mind live from 1982, some nice jamming & advert samples, never knew they performed it with the expanded line-up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmrAsIefl58

another curiosity from that era - the band playing Jerry Harrison's Slink

aw hell yeah, "mind" is one of my fav songs

anyway i think my ballot is done. sending it in shortly

live versions of "drugs" make me think man i should've voted for "drugs"

aw hell yeah, "mind" is one of my fav songs

otm

for those about to otm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOiDdXwdLH8

sent my ballot!

"Drugs" is sweet. Kind of forgot about how cool it is until after I submitted my ballot. so it goes

I voted for 'Drugs', it was one of the last additions to my ballot. My regret is forgetting 'Pull Up the Roots' so I'm hoping that doesn't get shut out.

Good to see the love for 'Mind', when I first heard Fear of Music that was my instant favourite, love the way all the instrumental parts answer each other.

Man, the more I think about TH these days, the more I think Remain In Light is massively front-loaded, FOM is patchy, and the first two albums are unimpeachable. This is quite a turn around from my opinions at the height of my fandom.

Also, I listened to Naked all the way through last night and I liked everything on there. I don't understand the hate. It's easily better than True Stories and Little Creatures.

maybe agree about Remain in Light but I don't think Fear of Music is patchy at all! I love every single track on that album, it seems like the most focused of all the TH albums

I think Cities and Life During Wartime are as an effective one-two punch as Once In A Lifetime and Houses in Motion (and they occupy the exact same slots on the respective albums!). Those four tracks are the quintessential TH to me

the lyrics of Cities are so perfectly unhinged

Indeed, i started a thread about them once and was soundly scoffed at for my troubles, but they still baffle me

Has David Byrne even *been* to London?